I watched this last night and I don't get it. Why is it talked about so much? None of them were good actresses and the plot was boring. Was this the original campfest? Patty Duke was practically screaming all her lines.
What am I missing? Is the book better? I've seen is mentioned here so many times, I thought I would try it but ehhh.
Sharon Tate was extremely beautiful though. Whatever happened to the lead actress? Barbara Perkins?
| by Anonymous | reply 315 | April 19, 2018 10:29 AM |
If you don't get it, you don't get it. Don't give it another thought. Seriously.
| by Anonymous | reply 5 | July 6, 2011 10:36 PM |
The book is MUCH better, OP. A great trashy read.
| by Anonymous | reply 6 | July 6, 2011 10:37 PM |
OP, you need to go back to Camp "Camp."
| by Anonymous | reply 7 | July 6, 2011 10:38 PM |
At one time I thought I should check it out, but the abundance of unfunny Helen Lawson posts at DL has turned me against ever watching it.
| by Anonymous | reply 8 | July 6, 2011 11:02 PM |
ITA, r8, the Helen Lawson posts were never funny. But I still love the movie!
| by Anonymous | reply 9 | July 6, 2011 11:06 PM |
Younger gays just aren't into this kind of thing. It's like Judy Garland - a total relic.
| by Anonymous | reply 10 | July 6, 2011 11:09 PM |
Are you serious? The Helen Lawson jokes always cracked me up.
| by Anonymous | reply 11 | July 6, 2011 11:14 PM |
You watched it alone at home, I take it.
| by Anonymous | reply 12 | July 7, 2011 12:19 AM |
The sequel (in name only) is vastly superior--and much more enjoyable.
If you've never seen it, do yourself a favor.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 13 | July 7, 2011 12:19 AM |
The book sucked, but it was a BEST SELLER. %0D %0D Bette Davis wanted and didn't get the Helen lawson role. Judy Garland was fired from the cast and quickly went into a downward spiral she%0D never came out of. Susan Hayward in her last good role. The movie version made author Jacqueline Susann sick to her stomach. Starlett Sharon Tate was later murdered by the Manson Family.%0D %0D Lots of history, lot of shabby drama. Lot of bad music. CAMP.
| by Anonymous | reply 14 | July 7, 2011 1:29 AM |
I should mention that I'm a lesbian who loves camp!
| by Anonymous | reply 15 | July 7, 2011 1:31 AM |
Younger gays spend most of their time studying nuclear physics and planning fundraisers for the poor. %0D %0D Older gays get drunk on Appletinis and wallow on Mother's lime green shag carpet while singing "It's Impossible" along with Neely O'Hara.
| by Anonymous | reply 16 | July 7, 2011 1:35 AM |
VOTD is the most important book ever written. It, and not the Bible, should be in every hotel room across the world.
| by Anonymous | reply 17 | July 7, 2011 1:36 AM |
one review in the TV Guide was "guilded garbage".....SPOT ON!
GREAT BAD MOVIE!
| by Anonymous | reply 18 | July 7, 2011 1:47 AM |
Who the fuck asked your opinion, OP? Opinions are like assholes and I KNOW ASSHOLES!
| by Anonymous | reply 19 | July 7, 2011 1:53 AM |
"Younger gays spend most of their time studying nuclear physics and planning fundraisers for the poor."%0D %0D In between the meth and barebacking.
| by Anonymous | reply 20 | July 7, 2011 1:59 AM |
R8 please do not let the Helen Lawson jokes stop you from watching VOTD. And r10 if you really think that you are missing a wonderful funny (though not meant to be) movie. Also Patty Duke's performance is what makes the movies so over the top (again though not meant to be).
| by Anonymous | reply 21 | July 7, 2011 2:04 AM |
Campfest? Honey, it's a film version of "Valley of the Dolls."
What were you expecting? Henry V? L'Avventura? Grand Illusion?
| by Anonymous | reply 22 | July 7, 2011 2:04 AM |
I will plant...%0D %0D My own tree...%0D %0D Right up OP's tight ass, that fucking Mary.
| by Anonymous | reply 23 | July 7, 2011 2:14 AM |
I'm not the Butler, Neely.%0D You're not the Breadwinner, either.
| by Anonymous | reply 24 | July 7, 2011 2:15 AM |
Has anyone noticed that at the end, the Garland character's (Patty Duke)understudy who goes on for her is a Barbra Streisand-like dressed actress?
| by Anonymous | reply 25 | July 7, 2011 2:19 AM |
Of course! and that Richard Dreyfuss, was the man talking to Neely about what she was wearing.
| by Anonymous | reply 26 | July 7, 2011 2:24 AM |
"Whatever happened to the lead actress? Barbara Perkins?" She opened a chain of pancake restaurants.
| by Anonymous | reply 27 | July 7, 2011 6:42 AM |
This movie is great because Neely O'Hara is "Fresh as Sprintime!"
| by Anonymous | reply 28 | July 7, 2011 6:58 AM |
You're a Reagan baby, aren't you, OP?
| by Anonymous | reply 29 | July 7, 2011 7:01 AM |
Who are these insufferable straight cunts on the DL lately?
| by Anonymous | reply 30 | July 7, 2011 7:19 AM |
Well I just watched this for the first time, in response to this thread.
I found it pretty boring. Great in certain parts but just not the fabulous mess I was hoping for.
I adore / am obsessed with Showgirls and I like Mommie Dearest.
It could be generational.
| by Anonymous | reply 31 | July 7, 2011 7:24 AM |
you know how Bitchy fags can be.
| by Anonymous | reply 32 | July 7, 2011 7:36 AM |
The theme is pretty good...
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 33 | July 7, 2011 8:15 AM |
R31, I know where you are coming from.%0D %0D I'm only four years older than you, but felt the same way after watching it the first time.%0D %0D Give it another try. Drinking helps.
| by Anonymous | reply 34 | July 7, 2011 8:26 AM |
Read the book then see the movie. Read the book even if you've seen the movie the book is absorbing.
| by Anonymous | reply 35 | July 7, 2011 8:37 AM |
The book is a great page-turner. It's quite a bit different than the movie, and it really holds your interest. The first time I read VOTD years and years ago I stayed up until 5:00 in the morning to finish it because I could not put it down, and I very rarely do that.
| by Anonymous | reply 36 | July 7, 2011 9:12 AM |
OP, the movie is campy and fun. One of the great things about the movie are the clothes, hairstyles, etc. This film is the epitome of the 1960's. There is a scene in which Barbara Perkins models high-end fashions that are the pinnacle of 60's fashion. I love it and I think it%E2%80%99s really a fun movie. I once heard that Sharon Tate's Character is loosely based on Carole Landis I think the Barabara Perkins character is loosely based on Jacqueline Susann herself. I forgot who the other charters are loosely based on. BTW, supposedly Carole Landis and Jacqueline Susann were once lovers when they were young and struggling in their careers. %0D %0D %0D Was actor Paul Burke who played Lyon Burke in the movie gay in real life? Bi? Straight? He was so handsome!%0D %0D Martin Milner who played Mel Anderson was so handsome as well. Is he gay? Bi? Straight? in real life? Has anyone ever heard anything about these two actors?%0D %0D BTW, Lee Grant has kept the same dam hairdo she had in the 60's and 70%E2%80%99s to this very day.%0D
| by Anonymous | reply 37 | July 7, 2011 9:18 AM |
The novel had been scandalous and the film was expected to be a ground-breaker in the realm of frankly adult entertainment. In order to get the joke you have to understand that everyone involved thought that they were doing something bold and daring when all they accomplished was something bland and silly.
It's not surprising that younger viewers don't grasp what an exercise in failed expectations the film is. They grew up watching raunchy material on daytime TV and can't recall an era when "four-letter words" weren't allowed to be spoken or spelled out in respectable media sources.
| by Anonymous | reply 38 | July 7, 2011 10:45 AM |
Barbara Perkins, Julie Garland, Pammy Duke, Shannon Tate, Susan Hayworth...
| by Anonymous | reply 39 | July 7, 2011 10:56 AM |
[quote]One of the great things about the movie are the clothes...
Clothes? Clothes?
R37, repeat after me:
Gowns by Travilla!
| by Anonymous | reply 40 | July 7, 2011 11:09 AM |
"One of the great things about the movie are the clothes... "
One thing are?
Oh dear....
| by Anonymous | reply 41 | July 7, 2011 11:33 AM |
It may work better in a crowd. Try seeing it at one of its many revivals and you'll have a great experience.
| by Anonymous | reply 42 | July 7, 2011 11:42 AM |
It's worth it just for that really long commercial.
| by Anonymous | reply 43 | July 7, 2011 11:46 AM |
I'm gonna heat up the lasagna.
| by Anonymous | reply 44 | July 7, 2011 11:55 AM |
[quote]"Whatever happened to the lead actress? Barbara Perkins?"
Why she's going to be at The Hollywood Show, the biggest autograph show in LA next weekend!
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 47 | July 7, 2011 12:57 PM |
The book was required reading in an English lit class at the University of Mo- Kansas City campus a few years ago.%0D %0D
| by Anonymous | reply 48 | July 7, 2011 1:24 PM |
I met her at the LAGLC when they hosted a fundraiser doing a reading of the script. Mapa played Anne. Vilanche played Jennifer. He-larious. Oh, and Louganis played Neely. Barbara Perkins was simply charming at the reception.
| by Anonymous | reply 49 | July 7, 2011 1:38 PM |
[quote]"guilded garbage"
Unionized landfill supervisors?
| by Anonymous | reply 50 | July 7, 2011 1:51 PM |
[quote]The theme is pretty good...%0D %0D But the rest of the music is intolerable.%0D %0D Sounds more like the 1950s than 19 sixty fucking 7.%0D %0D Bunch of squares made that film.
| by Anonymous | reply 51 | July 7, 2011 2:57 PM |
I've always been more a "The Best of Everything" queen.
| by Anonymous | reply 52 | July 7, 2011 3:03 PM |
I wouldn't pay any attention to that. You know how bitchy fags can be!
| by Anonymous | reply 53 | July 7, 2011 3:21 PM |
Roger Ebert and Russ Myer co-wrote a sequel (or what was supposed to be a sequel) titled "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls."%0D %0D I don't think I have ever met anyone who has viewed this film...anyone here??
| by Anonymous | reply 54 | July 7, 2011 4:13 PM |
[quote]I don't think I have ever met anyone who has viewed this film...anyone here??%0D %0D Yes, they're always running it on some minor movie channel here in England.%0D %0D It's a big bore, maybe slightly hipper in a silly American late 60s way, than VOTDs.%0D %0D There are clips on youtube.
| by Anonymous | reply 55 | July 7, 2011 4:25 PM |
[italic]Beyond[/italic] is camp, but it's self-aware camp. (I think Roger Ebert recalls laughing the whole time he was writing the script.) Tip: Watch it stoned.
| by Anonymous | reply 56 | July 7, 2011 4:33 PM |
Gotta get off, gonna get%0D Have to get off from this ride%0D Gotta get hold, gonna get%0D Need to get hold of my pride%0D %0D When did I get, where did I%0D How was I caught in this game%0D When will I know, where will I%0D How will I think of my name%0D %0D When did I stop feeling sure, feeling safe%0D And start wondering why, wondering why%0D Is this a dream, am I here, where are you%0D What's in back of the sky, why do we cry%0D %0D Gotta get off, gonna get%0D Out of this merry-go-round%0D Gotta get off, gonna get%0D Need to get on where I'm bound%0D %0D When did I get, where did I%0D Why am I lost as a lamb%0D When will I know, where will I%0D How will I learn who I am%0D %0D Is this a dream, am I here, where are you%0D Tell me, when will I know, how will I know%0D When will I know why?
| by Anonymous | reply 57 | July 7, 2011 4:42 PM |
I feel a little top heavy!!!
| by Anonymous | reply 58 | July 7, 2011 4:43 PM |
R57: I love you. My fave part of that number is the double-strand necklace that keeps looping around one, then the other, then both breasts. Thanks for the words!
Oh, and "You're not the breadwinner, either." poster - I love you too! That's my favorite line in the whole movie!
| by Anonymous | reply 59 | July 7, 2011 5:41 PM |
Judith, you're thinking of the "It's Impossible" song.
| by Anonymous | reply 61 | July 7, 2011 5:52 PM |
The clothes, makeup and especially the wigs were incredible. VOTD has the most beautiful wigs and hairpieces I have ever seen in a film. I wish that ultra-glam big hair 60s look would come back.
| by Anonymous | reply 62 | July 7, 2011 7:07 PM |
It's fun to go down to the Music Center in downtown LA and grab the handrail on the stairs and utter "Tony!"
| by Anonymous | reply 63 | July 7, 2011 7:14 PM |
The Gillian Girl commercial was maybe my favorite part.
| by Anonymous | reply 64 | July 7, 2011 7:19 PM |
r41 enough with the OH Dear stuff
| by Anonymous | reply 66 | July 7, 2011 7:51 PM |
Barbara PARKINS made her name on the 1960s TV series of Peyton Place. Never liked her much and her career went no where after "Dolls."
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 68 | July 7, 2011 8:33 PM |
Sparkle, Neely! Sparkle!!
| by Anonymous | reply 69 | July 7, 2011 8:57 PM |
Who are are you hiding from Helen? The reviews couldn't have been that bad.
| by Anonymous | reply 70 | July 7, 2011 9:18 PM |
See below for the link to Neely Ohara's Wikipedia page. She is the only character from the movies that has one.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 72 | July 7, 2011 11:03 PM |
The movie is worth watching for the sheer campy awfulness of the "Come Live With Me" duet between Neely and Tony sung at the sanitarium.
| by Anonymous | reply 73 | July 7, 2011 11:17 PM |
When does VOTD "jump the shark" What scene? I want to see it on the big screen.
| by Anonymous | reply 74 | July 7, 2011 11:18 PM |
r72%0D %0D Did you even read the entry? Helen Lawson has one as well
| by Anonymous | reply 76 | July 7, 2011 11:58 PM |
R66 enough with the enough with the OH Dear stuff.
| by Anonymous | reply 77 | July 8, 2011 12:02 AM |
I remember being transfixed by the book. The movie was less engrossing. I don't like watching brats (Neeley), but I have no problem reading about them.
| by Anonymous | reply 78 | July 8, 2011 12:07 AM |
More important information and photos at link:
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 79 | July 8, 2011 12:13 AM |
Paul Burke (r.i.p.) was the grandfather of Alia Shawkat, who played Maeby on Arrested Development.
To the poster who said it was a film made by squares, uh, THAT'S what helped turn it into a campfest, dear.
| by Anonymous | reply 80 | July 8, 2011 2:23 AM |
Will someone elaborate about the book. Was it the new "Peyton Place?" Were readers shocked and scandalized?
Was it a hit right out of the gate and did it take time to grow.
In my early obsession with the Guinness Book of World Records I always loved the pic a Jacqueline Susann...
| by Anonymous | reply 81 | July 8, 2011 2:37 AM |
And then would someone talk about the exciting buildup and buzz surrounding the release.
OOOH they're turning it into a major motion picture!!!
| by Anonymous | reply 82 | July 8, 2011 2:39 AM |
r81 at the time it was the most shocking novel.
| by Anonymous | reply 84 | July 8, 2011 4:30 AM |
shocking to whom? it was trash - even as a teenager, i knew it was trash. the book, the movie. at least the movie was funny, unintentional as the humor may have been. parkins was a beautiful girl. remember Judith krantz? big big success at that time too; also wrote trash. whatever happened to her?
| by Anonymous | reply 85 | July 8, 2011 5:11 AM |
[quote]Will someone elaborate about the book. Was it the new "Peyton Place?" Were readers shocked and scandalized?
In "Lovely Me" (the Susann biography), the manuscript had made the rounds of New York - Irving Mansfield was a two-bit press agent and got his wife's book read, partially because her first book (about their poodle) had been a surprisingly good seller and got a lot of goodwill for its light tone. But Valley was an enormous manuscript and people hated it.
Finally some high-up publishing figure brought it home to get his wife's opinion, and supposedly she said the next day "This is terrible. But I couldn't stop reading it all night. You have to buy it."
The book was assigned to Michael Korda, who was a young editor at the time, and according to him he worked on every page with her, getting it into the barely publishable shape it became.
What Susann did - more than the book itself - was create the first modern celebrity novelist, marketing herself on every TV show she could and making personal appearances everywhere. (I loved the fact she showed up at the warehouse when the book arrived to hand out donuts and coffee to the truckers: "C'mon, I'm countin' on you fellas to make this book a success!" She autographed books for them and they loved her.) She was also conscious of her own style, which was pitch-black wiglets, mink coats, Pucci dresses, boots, and later, the ankh.
Back in the 1960s, this was all seen as incomparably vulgar by the New York publishing world, even more vulgar than the book. But it sold millions and millions and millions.
| by Anonymous | reply 86 | July 8, 2011 7:07 AM |
I like you, R86.
The ANKH. Whatever happened to it? Mom and sisters wore that shit out.
| by Anonymous | reply 87 | July 8, 2011 7:58 AM |
Of all the famous dead people I would love to go out and get drunk with, Jackie Susann is at the top of my list. By all accounts, she was a hell of a lot of fun to hang out with.
| by Anonymous | reply 88 | July 8, 2011 8:42 AM |
Thank and I love you R86. I knew it was off topic, but I just love elaborations.
I wonder how many budding authors she created.
| by Anonymous | reply 89 | July 8, 2011 11:15 AM |
Have any of you seen the Michele Lee biopic? Is it any good?
| by Anonymous | reply 90 | July 8, 2011 4:15 PM |
I love the story of the world premiere: It was held aboard the cruise ship M/S [italic]Sapphire,[/italic] (see link) and Fox produced a documentary about the event that featured Tony Scotti burbling the theme song in a gondola. Jackie Susann left the screening in disgust and pronounced the film "a piece of shit" to reporters.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 91 | July 8, 2011 4:29 PM |
[quote]VOTD has the most beautiful wigs and hairpieces
Yeah, how do you like that? They won't even go down the john.
| by Anonymous | reply 92 | July 8, 2011 5:00 PM |
Here are several photographs taken by Travilla or his partner on that cruise R91.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 93 | July 8, 2011 5:29 PM |
r93 anymore? What is the website that you found those at?
| by Anonymous | reply 95 | July 8, 2011 6:53 PM |
[quote]The movie is worth watching for the sheer campy awfulness of the "Come Live With Me" duet between Neely and Tony sung at the sanitarium.%0D %0D Oh God, yes!
| by Anonymous | reply 96 | July 8, 2011 7:14 PM |
I've posted this before (given how often this film comes up for discussion here) but one of the funniest things about this movie is how all the styles are frozen in a small block of time while the plot apparently carries on for a decade or more. The rise and fall of the three young women takes place over a decade but the styles and fashions begin in 1966 and end in 1967.
| by Anonymous | reply 97 | July 8, 2011 8:37 PM |
The book took place over a twenty-year period, from 1945 to New Year's Eve, 1965. The movie seemed to take place in the course of one year. I highly recommend reading the book, even if you've seen the movie. The relationships between Anne, Nelly and Jennifer make a lot more sense in the book. In the movie, they're just three random women who seem like acquaintences, but in the book you learn how the three women all met one another and how they all became part of each others' lives.
| by Anonymous | reply 98 | July 8, 2011 8:54 PM |
Yes, r97, but ALL 1960s movies were like that. Take WW2 drama The Americanization of Emily (1964), Julie Andrews with her 60s bouffant do:
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 99 | July 8, 2011 9:00 PM |
I like re-watching Parkins' first encounter with Susan/Helen, when she snarls "I know all about run of the play contracts" and demands a fountain pen "not a lousy ballpoint" - and of course that climax with Barbara rolling in the surf as Dionne sings the song ....
| by Anonymous | reply 100 | July 9, 2011 4:28 AM |
Yes, r93 anymore pictures? Don't you just hate it when someone posts something interesting and than just disappears?
| by Anonymous | reply 101 | July 9, 2011 4:41 AM |
The book is schlock--it's so terrible that it's not even campy fun. The movie is extremely entertaining during the high-pitched scenes of hysteria--it's unthinkable without Duke and Hayward--but deadly dull when it tries to capture "real" life, e.g., anything with Anne Welles. (Welles is the stand-in for the author. Lyon Burke is supposedly David Begelman.)
| by Anonymous | reply 102 | July 9, 2011 4:47 AM |
"This movie is great because Neely O'Hara is "Fresh as Sprintime!" "%0D %0D No no NO. The line was: "Younger than Springtime...and twice as exciting!" Geez, get it right. And use spellcheck.
| by Anonymous | reply 103 | July 9, 2011 4:49 AM |
And I read once, that before the move starting shooting, that Patty Duke and then husband thought the character of Neely would win her a second Oscar.
| by Anonymous | reply 104 | July 9, 2011 4:53 AM |
Has anyone heard anything about Susan Hayward on that set? I haven't heard anything, which is weird because Susan Hayward was a big movie star. %0D %0D The poster that said when the book was first published, it was considered a piece of trash that is correct because I have heard the same thing. I once asked my mother how was the book when it first came out. I remember mother laughing and she said people thought the book was just trash when it first came out and at the same time people thought it was very seedy because the book touched on topics never discussed before. She said if you compare the garbage that is produced now days, that book was just child's play.%0D
| by Anonymous | reply 105 | July 9, 2011 6:40 AM |
It always cracks me up the way they use the word "fag" as if actually saying it and acknowledging that gays exist makes the movie modern and hip. It's almost as if the action stops for that one word.
| by Anonymous | reply 106 | July 9, 2011 2:45 PM |
Someone has to have seen the 1981 tv remake with Lisa Hartman.
Why isn't THAT on YouTube.
| by Anonymous | reply 107 | July 9, 2011 2:56 PM |
[quote]Why isn't THAT on YouTube.
Luck?
| by Anonymous | reply 108 | July 9, 2011 3:02 PM |
For R95 and R101.
Tate in Hayward's Costumes.
[quote]Has anyone heard anything about Susan Hayward on that set?
According to one of Travilla's pattern makers, when Hayward saw the sketches for her costumes, her reply to each one was "It's a dog."
And the rumor that Garland stole her wardrobe from the film is a complete fabrication. Travilla made her a copy the pants suit she wore in later concerts to ease the sting of being fired from the film.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 109 | July 9, 2011 3:24 PM |
With the funny videos of Sally Kirkland on youtube, I'm surprised no one has done a compilation of her work as Helen Lawson on the 90s soap version
| by Anonymous | reply 110 | July 9, 2011 3:31 PM |
[quote]the "Come Live With Me" duet between Neely and Tony sung at the sanitarium.
I'm with you guys.
I think I had an out-of-body experience the first time I saw that scene. Stunned into another dimension by the sheer awfulness of it.
Also, thanks to this thread, I have had "Come Live With Me"/"It's Impossible" swirling around my brain for the last few days.
Damn - those are some catchy tunes. They're like earwigs. I think Susan Boyle should do a mash-up of them on her next album.
| by Anonymous | reply 111 | July 9, 2011 6:49 PM |
Jazz instrumentalist Dorothy Ashby did a funky cover of "Come Live With Me" in the early '70s.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 112 | July 9, 2011 7:05 PM |
That was actually very pretty R112.
Do you know what sanitarium it was recorded in?
| by Anonymous | reply 113 | July 9, 2011 7:30 PM |
Thanks r93 but where is the website for these pictures, would love to see more...
| by Anonymous | reply 114 | July 9, 2011 9:09 PM |
There is no website R114.%0D %0D I've been working with the Travilla Estate for the past few years and these are images from their archives.
| by Anonymous | reply 115 | July 9, 2011 10:09 PM |
Thanks r93, any pictures of Patty Duke?
| by Anonymous | reply 116 | July 9, 2011 11:26 PM |
Who cares what anyone thinks of this film..it's gorgeous trash. Parkins, Duke, Hayworth and Tate were perfect in their respective roles. I first saw this while being babysat by my cousin, it was right after the '72 Munich Olympics massacre and it took my young mind away from that dreadful time. I also had a huge pre-adolescent thing for Martin Milner, a very sympathetic character swept to the side by his out of control pillhead wife (Duke). Lee Grant was her usual cooly smouldering self as Tate's sister-in-law with a secret. %0D %0D The scene with Barabara Parkins walking in the snow after leaving it all behind is one of the more beautiful and poignant moments captured on film. Listen youngins..I was "too young" to (also)love "The Women" way back then, but I did. Forget about when VOTD was made and just roll around in the splendor of it all. They don't make'em like this anymore.
| by Anonymous | reply 118 | July 10, 2011 5:01 AM |
R104, EVERYONE thinks that about a good role before they start the movie.
| by Anonymous | reply 119 | July 10, 2011 4:51 PM |
[quote]Will someone elaborate about the book. Was it the new "Peyton Place?" Were readers shocked and scandalized?
Rent "Isn't She Great". It tells the story of Jacqueline's journey. It's not very good but you'll see what happened and Bette Midler bears as much of a resemblance to Jacqueline Susann as pursed lips do to an asshole, but it is what it is
| by Anonymous | reply 120 | July 10, 2011 5:07 PM |
There really is no good campy movies like this anymore
| by Anonymous | reply 121 | July 10, 2011 5:09 PM |
Anne.. she took the red ones.%0D %0D Jennifer.. she took the blue ones.%0D %0D Neely.. she took the yellow ones.
| by Anonymous | reply 122 | July 10, 2011 9:06 PM |
This is a marriage bed, Lyon.
| by Anonymous | reply 123 | July 11, 2011 11:39 PM |
RE: It always cracks me up the way they use the word "fag" as if actually saying it and acknowledging that gays exist makes the movie modern and hip. It's almost as if the action stops for that one word.%0D %0D Jennifer did not "know better" than to talk that way off set to Neely.
| by Anonymous | reply 124 | July 11, 2011 11:41 PM |
r109 that was a nice picture of Sharon too in your link.
| by Anonymous | reply 125 | July 11, 2011 11:52 PM |
DOLLS ... the instant turn-on!
The nation's most startling and hotly discussed best seller -- now on the screen, with every shock and sensation intact!
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 126 | July 11, 2011 11:54 PM |
Lawson took the yellow pills?%0D %0D Um. No.
| by Anonymous | reply 127 | July 12, 2011 12:28 AM |
" Hello. Lyon Burke's Room"
| by Anonymous | reply 128 | July 13, 2011 1:06 AM |
Just saw this again last night, this time with someone else who appreciates camp- as one is meant to watch it.
It really is the most dreadful, incoherent mess. By turns hilarious and boring, and painfully soapy. Plus, it's SO DATED! Is this *really* meant to be the 60s? It's more like the 50s.
And I know we've done her to death, but it really must be said that the only character that is played with any interest is indeed that of Helen Lawson. She should have been in it a lot more, because Patty Duke just overplays it so much she comes off as a ridiculous tomboy.
But she gets just 3 scenes which is a terrible waste of the most believeable and interesting character in the whole campy mess.
The 'sequel' is miles better.
| by Anonymous | reply 130 | August 6, 2011 4:02 PM |
There is no way that Patty Duke comes off as a tomboy in this movie(If you want to see a tomboy go rent her movie BILLIE). In this picture she might be over the top, but for the most part she is glamorous, in some of the best costumes she ever wore in a film.
| by Anonymous | reply 131 | August 6, 2011 10:19 PM |
Sure, Patty Duke may have worn some gorgeous gowns, but did they suit her? Hell no!%0D %0D Remember the long white grown she wore for the confrontation with Helen Lawson? It'd look great on a model, but on a girl as short and chunky as Patty Duke, well, it made her look like a votive candle.%0D
| by Anonymous | reply 132 | August 6, 2011 10:41 PM |
Patty Duke's Neely O'Hara is not a tomboy, she is a coarse guttersnipe.
| by Anonymous | reply 134 | August 6, 2011 10:52 PM |
Come Live With Me. Hmmm..
Remind me to have them play this if I ever slip into a coma. Apparently just hearing it is enough to pull you out of it to sing along ha ha ha.
Rubbish.
| by Anonymous | reply 136 | August 7, 2011 4:45 PM |
[quote]At one time I thought I should check it out, but the abundance of unfunny Helen Lawson posts at DL has turned me against ever watching it.
I agree.
| by Anonymous | reply 138 | January 7, 2012 2:56 AM |
One of the great experiences of my youth was getting high on weed (and buzzed on beer)and seeing "Valley of the Dolls" and "Beyond the Valley of the Dolls" at a double feature one Saturday night in 1973 (I remember the year, since the event was right after I turned 19). The audience was packed, and I'm guessing 90% was gay or "curious." First Patty Duke and then Ronnie "Z-Man" Barzell. I felt exhausted after it was over.
The book is amazing trash. True story. In grad school, I had a prof who had been nominated for the National Book award. Over coffee after class one day, he told a group of us that his younger sister read the book and then the prof thought "let me see how bad this crap is." He finished it a couple of days later. Read it if you get a chance. Say what you want but Susan knew how to tell a story.
| by Anonymous | reply 139 | January 7, 2012 3:37 AM |
boobies, boobies, boobies...
| by Anonymous | reply 140 | January 7, 2012 3:55 AM |
I've often read that Jacqueline Susann said it had sold more copies than anything since the bible. Was that true?
| by Anonymous | reply 141 | January 7, 2012 4:32 AM |
It held that record for decades, r141. No fooling.
| by Anonymous | reply 143 | January 7, 2012 5:59 AM |
Oh, to hell with 'em! Let 'em droop.
| by Anonymous | reply 144 | January 8, 2012 7:58 PM |
I'm feeling a little top-heavy.
| by Anonymous | reply 145 | January 9, 2012 8:35 PM |
Actually Valley of the Dolls was assigned reading in a lit course at UMKC (University of Mo Kansas City) a few years ago.
| by Anonymous | reply 146 | January 9, 2012 9:21 PM |
"Was this the original campfest?"
Not the original, but arguably the ultimate.
| by Anonymous | reply 147 | January 9, 2012 9:36 PM |
Patty Duke was CBS top choice for the role of Laura Avery on Knots Landing.
| by Anonymous | reply 148 | January 9, 2012 9:50 PM |
I'll Plant! My! Own! Tree! And! Make! It! Grow!
Yes, "You Can Lead a Horticulture but You Can't Make Her Drink" was indeed my favorite "Helen Lawson Show."
| by Anonymous | reply 149 | January 9, 2012 9:58 PM |
Judy Garland VOTD wardrobe test.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 150 | January 9, 2012 10:55 PM |
[quote] What Susann did - more than the book itself - was create the first modern celebrity novelist
Excuse us?
| by Anonymous | reply 151 | January 9, 2012 11:17 PM |
Agree that the Helen Lawson jokes, which were funny for five minutes, are the most tired and stale thing still on Datalounge.
| by Anonymous | reply 152 | January 9, 2012 11:59 PM |
The jokes aren't stale. That's my pussy.
| by Anonymous | reply 153 | January 10, 2012 1:32 AM |
I would have loved for that to have happened r148
| by Anonymous | reply 154 | January 10, 2012 4:07 AM |
RE :150 Sad to see that - Judy looked like she could hardly stand on her own So wobbly. Now I get the idea why she couldn't have done the role. If they saved the wardrobe test, is it possible there is some footage of her at all, playing the part ? Would be facinating to see.
| by Anonymous | reply 155 | January 10, 2012 4:36 AM |
?Barbara PARKINS made her name on the 1960s TV series of Peyton Place. Never liked her much and her career went no where after "Dolls.""
By the way, whatever happened to the elusive Stephen Douglass (who played Steven Cord in Peyton Place)?? Information on him is virtually nil on the internet. No lead on where he came from and where he's gone.
| by Anonymous | reply 156 | January 10, 2012 5:21 AM |
Ted Casablanca is NOT a fag... and I'm the dame who can prove it.
| by Anonymous | reply 157 | January 10, 2012 5:23 AM |
[quote]Agree that the Helen Lawson jokes, which were funny for five minutes, are the most tired and stale thing still on Datalounge.
AGREE!!!
| by Anonymous | reply 158 | January 10, 2012 1:24 PM |
R155- I don't think they got around to filming. First official day of shooting, Judy was discovered drunk and passed out on a pool table with her dress hiked up above her head. There were also rumors that, after she was officially fired, she took a dump in her dressing room waste basket.
| by Anonymous | reply 159 | January 10, 2012 1:26 PM |
not true r159 Judy would not come out of her dressing room until the director came and got her and he refused. This continued for a few days and then she was fired.
| by Anonymous | reply 160 | January 10, 2012 10:13 PM |
OP, I didn't really "get" the movie the first time I saw it but love it now.
I think the first time I was too young to appreciate camp. I'd read the book at about age 13 (probably a telling sign for things to come). When I saw the movie, I was looking at it in terms of how accurate an adaptation it was of the novel (not very) and if it stood on its own as a good movie (not really).
I was a little confused after seeing it, it was so strange. It wasn't until later I started appreciating the unintentional humor of the film.
| by Anonymous | reply 161 | January 11, 2012 2:51 PM |
They filmed bits of the dressing room scene where Helen is first introduced, but nothing more except for wardrobe tests.
And it wasn't that Garland wouldn't come out of her dressing room until the director came and got her, but that they didn't film her scenes until later in the day and she was kept waiting around and during that time would drink and take pills to calm her nerves.
Also, Garland didn't steal her sequined paisley pantsuit from the film, but the studio gave it to her as well as paying her full salary. She then ordered three more suits in different colors from Travilla for her stage concerts.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 162 | January 11, 2012 3:00 PM |
Well the sequel, besides the campness and one of the most shocking murders I have ever seen on celluloid,and I think which should be recreated in a horror movie, you boys know the one, has considerably better music than the first movie. The real tragedy of course was the subsequent death of Sharon Tate. It is impossible to know how her career would have progressed through the seventies. If she wasn't murdered at the time and her marriage to Polanski remained intact, just what influence could she have exerted on popular culture in the ensuing decade is something to ponder about?
| by Anonymous | reply 163 | January 11, 2012 6:44 PM |
{RE 159} A dump....in her dressing room waste basket ? Horrible. I always wait till I sing at a funeral to do that.
| by Anonymous | reply 164 | February 11, 2012 2:26 AM |
Peter Breck was too ill to make a cameo with the remaining cast. Sadly, he died the 6th.
| by Anonymous | reply 165 | February 11, 2012 2:49 AM |
I've often read that Jacqueline Susann said it had sold more copies than anything since the bible.
Was that true?
| by Anonymous | reply 166 | February 24, 2012 1:49 AM |
This was THE dirty book when it came out. Someone lent my mom a copy and I read it when she wasn't around, usually quite late at night. It was quite the status symbol at school to have read it.
Is it trash? Very much so but compelling trash. It was quite the pop phenomenon, much the way the Harry Potter books are now.
| by Anonymous | reply 167 | February 24, 2012 2:14 AM |
The wig-flushing scene in the book is even better than the movie:
âNow, out of my way, has-been. You may have no place to go, but I got a guy out there waiting for me.â
âGuy!â Neely laughed derisively. âYou call that a guy? But maybe you better not keep him waiting at that, because from here on in all youâll be able to get is a fag to take you out â that is, if you pay the tab.â
âYou should know all about that! You were married to one,â Helen snapped. âChrist, you couldnât even hold your faggot. Not even with twins as a bargaining point. Hey â are they faggots too?â She started to leave, but Neely blocked her way.
âWhat did you say about my children?â Neelyâs voice was quivering.
âWhatâs wrong with having little twin faggots? I hear theyâre very good to their mothers. Now out of my way . . .â She shoved past Neely and headed for the door.
âNo you donât, you old bag!â Neely shouted. She leaped after Helen and grabbed her by the hair. Helen pulled away, but Neely held fast.
Suddenly Neely let out a gasp of amazement and stood staring at the thing in her hands. At the same time Helenâs hands flew to her head in horror.
âA wig!â Neely yelled, holding the long black hair up for Anne to see. âBy God, her hairâs as phony as she is!â
Helen reached out for her wig, but Neely jumped back. âGive me back my hair, you little bitch,â Helen yelled. âIt cost me three hundred bucks!â
Neely put it on and danced around the room. âHey! Dig me as a brunette!â
| by Anonymous | reply 168 | February 24, 2012 2:25 AM |
[quote]they didn't film her scenes until later in the day and she was kept waiting around and during that time would drink and take pills to calm her nerves.
That is the first time I have ever heard a story about Judy being kept waiting. She was notorious on film sets and concert stages for keeping everyone else waiting.
| by Anonymous | reply 170 | February 24, 2012 2:56 AM |
Was Judy really THAT messed up, on the set ? To the point she 'took a dump' in the waste basket. Just logicistically, that couldnt have been easy.Do you think after she walked off the set, the poor cleaner came in, swept up, then looked in the wastebasket, and said " What a dump"
| by Anonymous | reply 172 | March 27, 2012 9:18 AM |
Doubt she took a dump the last couple years of her life. She died on the commode from straining to go #2, due to severe constipation.
| by Anonymous | reply 173 | March 27, 2012 8:47 PM |
Susan Hayward was responsible for the studio paying Judy Garland, she would not be a replacement otherwise.
| by Anonymous | reply 174 | March 27, 2012 9:28 PM |
Wasn't Judy fully clothed when she died on the crapper? She just sat down and died, I believe.
| by Anonymous | reply 175 | March 27, 2012 9:35 PM |
After seeing those wardrobe tests with poor, wobbly, Judy, you can see she couldn't do it. And hard to believe she was only 45 - she looks 60-65. Sad.
| by Anonymous | reply 176 | March 28, 2012 12:06 AM |
Patty sings the theme instead of Dionne.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that with a good vocal coach, Duke could probably have done her own singing in the movie.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 177 | March 28, 2012 12:25 AM |
This is playing at Lincoln Center on Saturday night? Who here is going?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 179 | August 9, 2013 12:32 AM |
R177 Patty's singing there is absolutely dreadful. She sounds like she's had a few too many dolls.
| by Anonymous | reply 180 | August 9, 2013 12:45 AM |
OK, first off, Judy defecating in the trash pail happened during the filming of "I Could Go On SInging".
The films director, Ronald Neames I think, was very pleased when that film was in the can and he could say goodbye to Judy.
To wich Judy said "Your gonna miss me when I'm gone!"
Second, she was indeed kept waiting on the set of Valley for many hours so she occupied her time drinking Blue Nun wine and hanging out in her dressing room with friends and or hangers on. By the time the director got around to her scenes she was shot.
Every actress interviewed from that film has commented on how cruel the director was to just about everyone.
| by Anonymous | reply 181 | August 9, 2013 1:12 AM |
R177 has obviously never seen "Billie."
| by Anonymous | reply 182 | August 9, 2013 1:17 AM |
I'm not even going to read any of the comments. I'm just going to watch the movie WHICH, unfortunately, is not 10 minutes long... though it should be.
I better go heat up the lasagna...
| by Anonymous | reply 183 | August 9, 2013 1:18 AM |
Reading parts of this thread, especially Patty singing the theme song over a montage of stills, reminds me of what a marvelous movie this is. There is so much to enjoy from the first scene to the last.
| by Anonymous | reply 184 | August 9, 2013 2:13 AM |
I thought Judy pissed in the trash can, not shit.
| by Anonymous | reply 185 | August 9, 2013 4:30 AM |
I watch Valley of the Dolls at least once a year, twice if someone I know hasn't seen it, and it never fails to make me laugh out loud.
| by Anonymous | reply 187 | August 10, 2013 10:32 PM |
Patty should have been nominated for an Oscar ;-)
| by Anonymous | reply 188 | August 10, 2013 10:44 PM |
In the nightclub scene, when eye-candy Tony Polar sings, [italic]"Love is a flower that lives for an hour and withers and dies. Where is the prize? Forgive me if I deride love but, Darling, I've tried love, and so I say... come live with me!"[/italic] my balls shrivel up and try to escape back inside my body. Then I feel clammy all over.
Too much wicker, Rose!
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 190 | August 15, 2013 10:17 PM |
Boobies, Boobies, Boobies!
| by Anonymous | reply 191 | August 15, 2013 10:33 PM |
Judy Garland nicknamed Blue Nun wine "the Blue Lady".
| by Anonymous | reply 192 | August 15, 2013 10:36 PM |
".....not until he ties a can to that little broad's tail!"
| by Anonymous | reply 193 | August 15, 2013 10:45 PM |
If Valley was a hit w/ critics and Patty Duke's performance was critically acclaimed, what kind of career would she have had?
| by Anonymous | reply 194 | August 16, 2013 5:25 PM |
Blue Nun wine seemed to be the choice of a lot of people back then when they wanted something to just swill down like it was water. I've read bios of celebrities from that era, and Blue Nun comes up sometimes.
I don't think I've ever seen Blue Nun wine for sale, I don't know if it's still around.
| by Anonymous | reply 195 | August 16, 2013 5:59 PM |
[quote] Patty Duke was practically screaming all her lines.
One of my movie guides says it's one the screechiest performances ever committed to celluloid.
| by Anonymous | reply 196 | August 16, 2013 6:03 PM |
I dont get it as well. I dated a guy who LOVED it and would watch it several times a year. It's not a horrible movie, but it certainly doesn't merit repeated viewings.
| by Anonymous | reply 197 | August 16, 2013 6:50 PM |
[quote] If Valley was a hit w/ critics and Patty Duke's performance was critically acclaimed, what kind of career would she have had?
I think her mental health problems would have derailed a top flight career for many years.
| by Anonymous | reply 198 | August 16, 2013 7:01 PM |
I think while VotD is a campfest, it needs to be remade by HBO or some other outfit that can do it justice.
It should be done as a period piece as in the book. Is Glenn Close too old to play Helen Lawson?
Let's cast it.
| by Anonymous | reply 199 | August 16, 2013 7:05 PM |
Sally Kirkland for Helen Lawson!
| by Anonymous | reply 200 | August 16, 2013 7:07 PM |
[quote]OK, first off, Judy defecating in the trash pail happened during the filming of "I Could Go On SInging".
It actually happened during the filming of many of her films, beginning with "Pigskin Parade" and continuing through "The Wizard of Oz," "the Clock," "Summer Stock," and many others. It was a Judy garland trademark. "Let me go leave Busby one of my little 'gifts' in his office," she would say during a break from shooting "Babes in Arms."
| by Anonymous | reply 201 | August 16, 2013 7:07 PM |
I think Scorcese should direct the remake and, as R201 noted, it should be done as a period piece.
| by Anonymous | reply 202 | August 16, 2013 7:08 PM |
Wasn't sixty-five episodes enough R202?
Er...Miss Kirkland.
| by Anonymous | reply 203 | August 16, 2013 7:19 PM |
La LuPone for Helen Lawson!
| by Anonymous | reply 204 | August 16, 2013 9:49 PM |
Patty Duke for Lawson. It almost ruined her career, maybe it could revive her career ;-)
| by Anonymous | reply 205 | August 16, 2013 10:24 PM |
The novel VALLEY OF THE DOLLS was great trash, compulsively readable. Susann had worked at the margins of show business for decades, and knew what she was writing about. People felt they were getting the inside dope (no pun intended) about success in show business. As ridiculous as this sounds, the novel has the confident air of someone who knows what she's writing about.
Everyone thought the way Patty Duke looked in VALLEY was the best she had ever looked, especially after her cute-but-unglamorous appearance in everything she had done up to that time.
Someone asked about Martin Milner and Paul Burke. Burke had come off of NAKED CITY, one of the best (and best written) series to ever appear on TV. He got an Emmy nomination in '62 for playing a young cop who was smart and sensitive, a 'new generation' of college-educated policemen. After VALLEY he had another successful TV series with TWELVE O'CLOCK HIGH, a WWII story that had been a hit play on Broadway and then a big movie starring Gregory Peck. I always thought he was a stiff in VALLEY, whereas in NAKED CITY he manages to be very likable and expressive without overdoing it. It's too bad he was never as good again.
Martin Milner was a kid actor on Broadway and in movies and can be seen as an adolescent in LIFE WITH FATHER with William Powell and Irene Dunne. Once he was fully grown he played male wallflowers in '50s movies, the kind who get left behind for sexier stars. He was the prototypical 'nice guy,' which he played again in another literate ground-breaking series, ROUTE 66, where he took a backseat to sexy, volatile George Maharis, then sexy, soft-spoken Glenn Corbett. Milner looked like an archetypical early '60s guy, a hazel-eyed strawberry blond who looked good in white jeans. He was cute, never sexy, though his character often resorts to violence, vigorously spanking both kids and women. Both NAKED CITY and ROUTE 66 can be enjoyed (and they should be, they were great series) on Me-TV. After VALLEY, Milner did the successful ADAM-12 TV series in the '70s where he once again played second fiddle to sexier co-stars. He was always competent and professional, but too bland to be a real star.
| by Anonymous | reply 206 | August 16, 2013 10:31 PM |
Jacqueline Susann herself had a life that was not unlike Valley of the Dolls. I highly recommend the Susann bio "Lovely Me" by the late Barbara Seaman, a very well-written account of Jackie's very eventful life.
It's a shame Jacqueline Susann died at a relatively young age; I can only imagine the kind of books she would have written in the latter half of the 70s and into the 80s.
| by Anonymous | reply 207 | August 16, 2013 10:38 PM |
I thought The Love Machine was better written than VOTD and the story was just as interesting.
| by Anonymous | reply 208 | August 16, 2013 11:09 PM |
"It's a shame Jacqueline Susann died at a relatively young age; I can only imagine the kind of books she would have written in the latter half of the 70s and into the 80s."
Other than perhaps more explicit descriptions in the sex scenes, I imagine they would have been the exact same kind of books she was writing in the '60s and early '70s. Do you see there having been an artistic progression in her work toward something else?
| by Anonymous | reply 209 | August 17, 2013 5:14 AM |
For maximum pleasure, VOTD should be read when you're 12 or 13--a time when you have a child's vision of adulthood garnered from old movies and no critical sensibility whatsoever.
If you read it later, you won't be able to overlook the silliness and the awful writing.
| by Anonymous | reply 210 | August 17, 2013 5:41 AM |
If this camp fest is to be remade, Baz Luhrmann MUST turn it into one of his craptatious monstrosities.
| by Anonymous | reply 211 | August 17, 2013 5:43 AM |
If Jacqueline Susann had lived she would have turned into something like this:
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 212 | August 17, 2013 5:47 AM |
Can a paying member please post this link as a new thread. Artist's birthday and datalounge's feedback would be fun. Long time readers and posters, but 18 bucks too much just now.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 214 | August 17, 2013 2:19 PM |
bump for Patty Duke becoming a grandmother again
| by Anonymous | reply 216 | September 4, 2013 12:34 PM |
Yeah, I never got it either. I did, on the other hand, LOVE Beyond the Valley of the Dolls.
| by Anonymous | reply 217 | September 4, 2013 12:43 PM |
Forgive me for speaking ill of tbe dead, but Jacqueline Susann resembled an anorexic man in drag. Picture Mick Jagger in mod 1960's clothes. With his current face.
| by Anonymous | reply 219 | September 7, 2013 2:11 AM |
Yes, Jacqueline Susann was a rather hard-looking woman and there was a certain masculine quality to her appearance. Truman Capote famously called her "a truck driver in drag" on the Tonight Show, which were pretty strong words for the time.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 220 | September 7, 2013 3:36 AM |
Dolores Gray looked like Susann.
| by Anonymous | reply 221 | December 10, 2013 3:33 PM |
OP has no understanding and appreciation for camp. Some gay men don't and I find it puzzling. One the best things about being gay is the appreciation of camp.
| by Anonymous | reply 222 | December 12, 2013 3:24 AM |
Please, i need you to tell me if there is any lesbianism in this movie. Have you also read the book? Any lesbian themes in it?
| by Anonymous | reply 224 | April 26, 2014 12:55 PM |
Yes, Jennifer hooks up with a rich girlfriend at school.
| by Anonymous | reply 225 | April 26, 2014 1:26 PM |
Thanks for answering 231.Kisses~!~
| by Anonymous | reply 226 | April 26, 2014 1:37 PM |
You're welcome. The affair doesn't end well, sorry to say!
| by Anonymous | reply 227 | April 26, 2014 1:42 PM |
It's ok. I can get it...Ty again!
| by Anonymous | reply 228 | April 26, 2014 1:47 PM |
I like the description of Susan Hayward's bent stance in the I'll Plant My Own Tree song, as if she is in two different zip codes.
| by Anonymous | reply 229 | April 26, 2014 2:18 PM |
[quote]Patty Duke was practically screaming all her lines.
SO?
SHE'S NEELY O'HARA!
| by Anonymous | reply 230 | April 26, 2014 2:20 PM |
I watched the film for the first time just now and I can't say that I liked it that much. As a film it wasn't very good. The story probably works better in the book but I haven't read it so I don't know. I really couldn't even see the film as camp. The film wasn't bad enough to be supertrashy, it was just mediocre.
It made me wonder that had there been real widespread gay entertainment at the time would gay men have cared that much about women's stuff, like this film. I'm 42 so sure I've had my fair share of living in the shadows of traditional roles of men and women, and having many times identify with women in films and books. I even used to read fucking Harlequin books when I was a teen. But now... hmm, I didn't feel for those bitches at all. All the fag-slurs thrown around in the film didn't make me smile at all.
I did manage to watch the film completely without fast forwarding so in that sense I was entertained. But really the film is not something I wish to see again.
| by Anonymous | reply 231 | April 26, 2014 4:02 PM |
I haven't seen this one. However, i have seen 'Behind the Valley of the Dolls', which i suspect is a far better movie than 'Valley of the Dolls'.
At least, i can assure you that it has a great soundtrack and a soft, sexy, feminine lesbian scene. From what i understand 'Valley of the Dolls' definitely lack that. Judy Garland considered the script very dirty and insulting. Well, i suspect, she was right.
| by Anonymous | reply 232 | April 26, 2014 6:39 PM |
[quote]everyone involved thought that they were doing something bold and daring when all they accomplished was something bland and silly.
Bingo.
The mid/late sixties was such a rapidly changing era, that from the time the movie was filmed to the time it was released, expressions and shock value had left everyone behind.
| by Anonymous | reply 233 | April 26, 2014 10:43 PM |
R238 Do you mean BEYOND the Valley of the Dolls?
| by Anonymous | reply 234 | April 26, 2014 10:50 PM |
Sharon as Jennifer's line, while on the phone with her mother: "I know all I have is a body..." is heart wrenching in hindsight.
So lovely, such a terrible actress.
| by Anonymous | reply 235 | April 26, 2014 10:52 PM |
Remake would be dreadful and would make 3 dollars. But re-casting it is fun:
Anne Wells - Why AnnE of course
Neely O'Hara - Lilo (let's keep the role trashy and cast a troubled actress again)
Jenniffer North - Amanda Seyfried (I know, she already played Linda Lovelace, but hey...)
The hot boyfriend who goes crazy - Zac Efron
Neely's "fag" husband - Matt Bomer
Assorted choreographers/directors/replaced leads - Just get guys & gals from "Glee"
Helen Lawson - M or Cher
| by Anonymous | reply 236 | April 27, 2014 12:03 AM |
To avoid that whole powder room scene, I wonder why Helen Lawson didn't just dye her hair rather than wear a wig?
| by Anonymous | reply 237 | April 27, 2014 12:16 AM |
"a latent homosexual!"
"who the hell are you?"
"where are you?"
"NEELY O'HARA!"
such great dialogue...
"I'll go out the way I came in!"
The first great gay camp movie...
with Judith Lowry (look her up) at the end!
Yes, Barbara WAS beautiful. You gotta love Patty Duke's wacko performance.
| by Anonymous | reply 238 | April 27, 2014 3:09 AM |
Remake please! I'd love to see Cher doing "I'll Plant My Own Tree".
| by Anonymous | reply 239 | April 27, 2014 4:44 AM |
[quote]R243
You're suppose to find out that the aging Helen Lawson is both losing her (singing) voice & also her hair, that she's damn near bald. In the 1967 film, the (white) wig that Susan Hayward wears doesn't let you know that. When the story was remade around '81 with Jean Simmons as Lawson, you see that she is near bald once Neely tears off the wig.
| by Anonymous | reply 240 | April 27, 2014 5:05 AM |
OP, I don't have time for your nonsense. Now get out of my way, I've got a man waiting for me
| by Anonymous | reply 241 | April 27, 2014 5:16 AM |
"that's a switch from the fags you're usually with !"
| by Anonymous | reply 242 | April 27, 2014 5:19 AM |
Art films? Nudies! That's all they are. Nudies!
| by Anonymous | reply 243 | April 27, 2014 5:20 AM |
r248 - At least I never had to MARRY one!
| by Anonymous | reply 244 | April 27, 2014 5:22 AM |
"you take that back..............!!"
| by Anonymous | reply 245 | April 27, 2014 5:25 AM |
"Oh my God.....it's a wig. Her hair's as phony as she is !!"
| by Anonymous | reply 246 | April 27, 2014 5:27 AM |
[wraps scarf around head and walks out of bathroom in a dignified manner] *sniff*
| by Anonymous | reply 247 | April 27, 2014 5:34 AM |
Recognize where I'm standing ?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 248 | April 27, 2014 5:37 AM |
Anne's home (wasn't it her aunt's?)
| by Anonymous | reply 249 | April 27, 2014 5:38 AM |
[quote]To avoid that whole powder room scene, I wonder why Helen Lawson didn't just dye her hair rather than wear a wig?
If I recall correctly, in the book Helen had to wear a wig because her hair fell out after having it dyed for the show whose opening night they were celebrating. The added indignity of losing her hair betokens advancing age and misfortune for Lawson. Her new star vehicle isn't much good. The plot is trite, the tunes are stale, and the star is simply too old and plain to play a romantic leading lady any more. This is actually a cruelly accurate takeoff on Ethel Merman's near-flop, Happy Hunting, from 1956.
| by Anonymous | reply 250 | April 27, 2014 5:43 AM |
Yes, Anne's home. In the opening scene she was living there with her widowed mother & (her) Aunt Amy (the great Judith Lowry).
At the film's end she goes back there to live with Aunt Amy; Anne' mother dies halfway through the movie.
| by Anonymous | reply 251 | April 27, 2014 5:44 AM |
Kelt, you're cute
Is there actually a Lawrenceville, Massachusetts?
| by Anonymous | reply 252 | April 27, 2014 5:47 AM |
Susann must've really despised Merman once they broke off their relationship.
| by Anonymous | reply 253 | April 27, 2014 5:47 AM |
No Lawrenceville, MA. The house is in Redding, Connecticut about 10 minutes off of Merritt Parkway.
| by Anonymous | reply 254 | April 27, 2014 5:52 AM |
To get the full camp experience it's best to see this in a movie theater, preferably with a gay crowd.
| by Anonymous | reply 255 | April 27, 2014 6:27 AM |
R240, it was a typo. I know. Sorry Roger!
| by Anonymous | reply 256 | April 27, 2014 11:56 AM |
Probably better in a theater than on tv. Still it's not camp in the "atrocious script and budget" sense of "Plan 9 from Outer Space". Nor does it have a hammy star and the "Joan Crawford as Groucho Marx in drag" hair and makeup of "Mommie Dearest". Not a campfest in every scene and more turgid soap opera than anything else.
I read the book as a teenager along with some other sordid fiction"from earlier eras like "Tropic of Cancer". Not enough sex in any of it. Just seemed boring. I think the book and movie were products of their time. The movie would have been contemporary with "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf" which obviously had better material and casting. But jut imagine if Patty Duke in her pre-Lithium days had the unsympathetic "slim hipped" role that went to Sandy Dennis or the "Mommie Dearest" Dunaway had Martha, then that film would have been camp for the ages.
| by Anonymous | reply 257 | April 27, 2014 2:14 PM |
[quote]In the 1967 film, the (white) wig that Susan Hayward wears doesn't let you know that.
Not only that, it is actually a luscious and coiffed silver mop - maybe not for 60's standards when everything had to be teased to within an inch of the ceiling.
Still, it almost gave me the impression that Miss Hayward did not want to ugly herself for the role.
| by Anonymous | reply 258 | April 27, 2014 2:32 PM |
Kelt you ARE cute.
And in the shallowest possible of ways, I take back any criticism I directed your way in any other threads.
Call me.
| by Anonymous | reply 259 | April 27, 2014 2:34 PM |
[quote]The house is in Redding, Connecticut about 10 minutes off of Merritt Parkway.
Oh my god, I have to go find it!
| by Anonymous | reply 260 | April 27, 2014 4:01 PM |
Who has actually seen the Jean Simmons version? Anything interesting to remark?
| by Anonymous | reply 261 | April 27, 2014 4:05 PM |
[quote]R267
I remember it fairly well. Didn't care for it, not compared to the 1967 version. Catherine Hicks as 'Anne Welles'; Yuck. Hicks' talents belong strictly on the Christian Broadcasting Network. Bert Convy as doomed singer Tony Pilar & David Birney as male lead Lyon Burke ? Lisa Hartman was cast as Neely; all early 80s glam punk rock. Painful viewing. In the infamous scene where Helen Lawson & Neely have a fight, it took place just offstage. Sizing up Neely's get-up for an awards show, Helen Lawson bellows with disgust, "you look like a porcupine in heat."
| by Anonymous | reply 262 | April 28, 2014 2:59 AM |
in the book Lawson is wearing the wig because its been falling out because she has cancer and is undergoing chemotherapy
| by Anonymous | reply 263 | April 28, 2014 3:18 AM |
Susan Hayward did not want to be seen as a balding chemo therapy patient.
| by Anonymous | reply 264 | April 28, 2014 3:20 AM |
Substituting it with a full head of thick white hair is so, so lousy.
| by Anonymous | reply 265 | April 28, 2014 3:23 AM |
[quote]R271
Agreed. Doing the full head of white hair only prompted people to ponder why she didn't just 'color' it.
| by Anonymous | reply 266 | April 28, 2014 5:16 AM |
Wonder if Judy was up for the bald look? She had a sense of humor but who knows if she would have taken it this far.
| by Anonymous | reply 267 | April 28, 2014 5:26 AM |
[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]
| by Anonymous | reply 268 | April 28, 2014 5:38 AM |
I agree with the person who said the book is best read when you are younger. I read it as a somewhat naïve 15 year old back in the 80's and thought it was hot stuff. I then found my mom's copies of 'The Love Machine' and 'Once Is Enough' and snuck them out and read them. I still am surprised my mom had those books, I came from a very strict Christian home and I have never seen my mom read anything more racy than a Danielle Steele or Nicholas Sparks book.
| by Anonymous | reply 270 | May 2, 2014 11:35 PM |
Re: Neely's surprise at Helen's hair being a wig... wasn't it somewhat common for women of middle age or older to be wearing wigs then? And even sometimes younger women?
| by Anonymous | reply 271 | May 3, 2014 1:30 AM |
[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]
| by Anonymous | reply 272 | May 3, 2014 2:03 AM |
[quote]R278
Parkins & Tate, in particular used 'falls' in VALLEY OF THE DOLLS.
| by Anonymous | reply 273 | May 3, 2014 5:14 AM |
It's pretty obvious that Duke herself had a hairpiece on while pulling off Helen's wig. "It's a wig!"
| by Anonymous | reply 274 | May 4, 2014 3:11 AM |
Four words = "Come live with me"
| by Anonymous | reply 275 | May 6, 2014 2:06 AM |
Here's Patty Duke in her dress for the scene where she sings COME LIVE WITH ME at the 'sanitarium' and the singing by Neeley brings the debilitated Tony briefing back to his (partial) senses.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 276 | May 7, 2014 6:29 AM |
[all posts by tedious, racist idiot removed.]
| by Anonymous | reply 277 | May 7, 2014 7:24 AM |
Rare behind the scenes candid of Patty Duke, Mark Robson, Lee Grant, David Weisbart, Jackie Susann & Barbara Parkins from April 1967.
Barbara Parkins, David Weisbart, director, Jacqueline Susann, Lee Grant, Mark Robson, Patty Duke, producer, Valley of the Dolls, visitor, ...
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 278 | May 8, 2014 8:02 AM |
[quote]The movie was terrible, but the costumes, makeup and wigs were utterly fabulous. I love that 60s glam look.
You find this look a little contrived do you ?
Yeah, it is just a little
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 279 | May 8, 2014 8:08 AM |
It's been years since I read the book, but I thought Anne was supposed to be a cool blonde and Jennifer North was supposed to be very large breasted. Bad casting on both parts.
| by Anonymous | reply 280 | May 8, 2014 8:10 AM |
I just watched this and oh my god.
It's an AMAZING piece of shit!
The music is completely mad. That old woman singing this awful, awful epic anthem wannabe about planting her own tree - Jesus, the second-hand embarrassment is killing me.
So glad I watched it!
| by Anonymous | reply 281 | January 3, 2015 11:11 PM |
Sharon Tate could not act.
| by Anonymous | reply 282 | February 2, 2015 12:49 PM |
[quote]Sharon Tate could not act.
She was a mediocre actress who was very good at playing a very bad actress in this movie.
| by Anonymous | reply 283 | February 2, 2015 2:21 PM |
It's iconic, cf, Showgirls.
| by Anonymous | reply 284 | February 2, 2015 2:25 PM |
I was in 4th or 5th grade when the movie came out and had no awareness of it. The talk of the boy's side of the playground was Berserk with Joan Crawford 'cause people got impaled and sawed in half and stuff and it was rated M.
I love the 'Come Live With Me" song. It's an archetypal, Vegas-y, Peter-Lemon-mood-ring, suave, polyester-slacked icon... with hair that doesn't move.
| by Anonymous | reply 285 | February 2, 2015 2:54 PM |
[quote]The talk of the boy's side of the playground was Berserk with Joan Crawford 'cause people got impaled and sawed in half and stuff and it was rated M.
What school did you go to where boys talked about Joan Crawford movies?
| by Anonymous | reply 286 | February 2, 2015 2:56 PM |
sharon tate was breathtakingly beautiful... so sad.....
i always wondered what are we the viewer supposed to think of "what happened to neely o'hara?" i mean the last we see of her is on her knees in a alley crying about her life... did she become a homeless lady? did she become a permanent alcoholic and confined in a mental place forever? i've always wondered about her character and how she ended up?
was she just screwed up for that 1 night and then got sober the next day and try to rebuild her career yet again?...
| by Anonymous | reply 287 | February 2, 2015 3:18 PM |
[quote]was she just screwed up for that 1 night and then got sober the next day and try to rebuild her career yet again?...
If she's worthy of the name O'Hara, that's exactly what she did.
| by Anonymous | reply 288 | February 2, 2015 3:23 PM |
R287 in the book which is quite a bit different, she went away for awhile, got sobered up, went back out on the concert circuit and had another comeback although there were hints that her bad behaviors were returning. In the book, Anne marries Lyon and they have a child. He continues to fuck around on her and she slowly begins to depend on the red dolls to help her sleep at night. The last line of the novel has Anne taking two pills instead of one after overhearing Lyon in the bedroom with his latest conquest. The Lyon's are celebrating NY Eve with a big party in their apartment. On her way to her own bedroom, Anne catches Lyon making out with s one young starlet in another bedroom. Lyon is not aware that his wife is outside the door. Apparently Jacqueline Susann hated all the changes to her novel for the screen and walked out of the premiere.
| by Anonymous | reply 289 | February 2, 2015 3:37 PM |
Who would remember Jacqueline Susann or her books without this movie?
| by Anonymous | reply 290 | February 2, 2015 3:43 PM |
There was a lit course at University of Missouri Kansas City and Valley of the Dolls was assigned reading as part of the pop culture track.
| by Anonymous | reply 291 | February 2, 2015 3:51 PM |
Three of Susann's novels ( Valley of the Dolls, The Love Machine and Once is Not Enough ) got paperback reprints about 10 years ago from Grove Press.
| by Anonymous | reply 292 | February 2, 2015 3:53 PM |
It's really odd and unpredictable the things that people are still enjoying and talking about 45 years later that have nothing to do with quality or relevance! Still, you gotta admit....We're still talking about it!
| by Anonymous | reply 293 | February 2, 2015 4:51 PM |
My best friend told me about finding a dogeared copy of VOTD at a beach rental in Florida one summer when he went on vacation with his parents -- he ended up reading it cover to cover.
One thing that's been proved over and over about the book is that it's not very good, but it [italic]is[/italic] compulsively readable.
| by Anonymous | reply 294 | February 2, 2015 5:02 PM |
I've never seen the movie, but the preview / trailer for Valley of the Dolls on iTunes is hilarious.
| by Anonymous | reply 295 | February 2, 2015 5:09 PM |
[quote]Still, you gotta admit....We're still talking about it!
We're still talking about the Titanic and the Hindenburg too.
| by Anonymous | reply 296 | February 2, 2015 5:13 PM |
I'd rather talk about this film than some of the inexplicably Oscar-winning movies of the same era Hollywood wants us to talk about.
| by Anonymous | reply 298 | February 2, 2015 5:24 PM |
" WITH THAT LITTLE WHORE??!"
| by Anonymous | reply 299 | February 2, 2015 5:26 PM |
[quote]What school did you go to where boys talked about Joan Crawford movies?
Funny you should mention that ... a former bf found it quite something that back when "I, Claudius" was first run on Sunday nights on Masterpiece Theatre, several of us used to dissect the episode Monday morning on the school bus. One fellow was outraged that they didn't cast HIM as Livia!
(Private school)
| by Anonymous | reply 300 | February 2, 2015 5:30 PM |
I would have LOVED going to a school where Joan Crawford movies were discussed.
| by Anonymous | reply 301 | February 2, 2015 10:06 PM |
[quote]" WITH THAT LITTLE WHORE??!"
That little whore makes me feel 10 feet tall !!
| by Anonymous | reply 302 | February 2, 2015 10:24 PM |
Did that school have Red Weirdos in the vending machines?
| by Anonymous | reply 303 | February 2, 2015 10:56 PM |
But of course, R303! No wire hangers in the cloak room though...
| by Anonymous | reply 304 | February 3, 2015 1:26 AM |
Of course the best part is the fight in the ladies room between Helen Lawson (HAYWARD) & Neely O'Hara (DUKE).
Patty Duke later recalled that on the day they filmed that scene (see attached) that anyone who had any connection with the film as well as FOX Studios was present.
"Now you get outta my way; I got a MAN waiting for me !"
"That's a switch from the fags you're usually stuck with........."
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 305 | February 4, 2015 3:54 AM |
R263 No. In the book Helen was living with husband #100 on an island somewhere and, when she had her hair dyed her traditional jet black it fell off and she wore a wig until it grew back. She was not undergoing chemo.
| by Anonymous | reply 306 | February 4, 2015 4:00 AM |
[quote]I would have LOVED going to a school where Joan Crawford movies were discussed.
How much seed money would we need for a DL Film School?
| by Anonymous | reply 307 | February 4, 2015 4:03 AM |
Well, I teach in which students are required to watch Mildred Pierce, Mommie Dearest, and Die, Mommie, Die! among others.
| by Anonymous | reply 308 | February 4, 2015 4:33 AM |
