ILL and the Andy Griffith show are always in rotation but some shows from those eras are just painfully dated. Was the writing better or did they have some magic combination?
| by Anonymous | reply 149 | August 7, 2023 10:10 PM |
You realize, don't you, that "I Love Lucy" made its debut more than 70 years ago? And that "The Andy Griffith Show" is more than 60 years old? And you're wondering why other shows from that era are "painfully dated"? How do you think "Sex and the City" will hold up 60 years from now?
| by Anonymous | reply 1 | July 14, 2023 6:21 PM |
Yes, that's my point R1. Why are those particular show still being rerun and others not?
| by Anonymous | reply 2 | July 14, 2023 6:26 PM |
Most shows from the era of "I Love Lucy" and "The Andy Griffith Show" are unwatchable today. Times change, tastes change, and what people find funny changes. Have you ever seen old stand-up comedy routines from the '50s and '60s on "The Ed Sullivan Show" on YouTube? Almost all male comics, of course, with the eventual exceptions of Joan Rivers and Phyllis Diller. And half the jokes those male comics are making are about women who don't know how to drive, women who don't know how to cook, and women who are generally brainless. And a lot of that seeped over into sitcoms of the day.
| by Anonymous | reply 3 | July 14, 2023 6:41 PM |
I rediscovered F Troop a while ago and found the second season bizarre, if occasionally humorous. I still find the mid- to late-60s Beverly Hillbillies funny when it spoofed campus unrest, movie stardom, and corporate greed. Green Acres is still surreal and predates many later sitcoms by having self-referential jokes. Also, though Bob & Emily usually get the credit, Oliver & Lisa were the first married couple to sleep in the same bed along with sophisticated references to their sexual compatibility.
But from the 50s ILL stands alone in still being funny. Maybe The Honeymooners also, but I always found the atmosphere rather depressing.
| by Anonymous | reply 4 | July 14, 2023 6:55 PM |
About F Troop, it fell into that weird mud-60s sitcom trope by having a rock band appear. In the 1860s! More ridiculous than the Gilligan's Island episode.
| by Anonymous | reply 5 | July 14, 2023 6:57 PM |
Paul Lynde made an appearance on F Troop as a Canadian mountie. And yes he actually said “We always get our man”
| by Anonymous | reply 6 | July 14, 2023 6:59 PM |
Sex in the City didn't even hold up for 10 years. The reboot is supposed to making up for all the crimes the original committed. Which is probably why the reboot sucks.
| by Anonymous | reply 7 | July 14, 2023 7:02 PM |
A lot of the continued success of some shows is the topic of the humor. I Love Lucy doesn't date so much because it boils down to a battle of the sexes, and a heroine who is constantly being frustrated in her ambitions. That's also why each successive iteration of a Lucy show did less well: it became a sitcom about a clown who got into ever-more-predictable scrapes, and relied more and more on guest stars with current name value.
The Burns and Allen Show holds up for a different reason: even though many jokes/situations were recycled over its eight-year run they started off very funny, with real wit and cleverness. Add to that the endless charm of Gracie Allen and you have a success for the ages. George, talented as he was and with the same writers, couldn't go it without her.
At the other end of the spectrum you have shows like Happy Days and Three's Company which are decades younger and have not held up at all. Not a knock against the performers, but the scripts were terrible, with over reliance on catchphrases, cheap titillation, and put-downs. All of that dates faster than last week's strawberries...
| by Anonymous | reply 8 | July 14, 2023 7:02 PM |
When I was a kid, I loved both Golden Girls and Designing Women. I don't really intentionally watch either now, but when I see clips, etc. it seems like Golden Girls has held up much better than Designing Women. I wonder why?
| by Anonymous | reply 9 | July 14, 2023 7:03 PM |
the short answer? the writing.
| by Anonymous | reply 10 | July 14, 2023 7:06 PM |
Can it really be the writing, R10? I mean, the studio execs clearly aren't with you on that one, saying that writers aren't really that important...
| by Anonymous | reply 11 | July 14, 2023 7:10 PM |
Golden Girls holds up incredibly well. The GG we watched as kids, has a whole new take when we rewatch the episodes now around the same age as the Golden Girls characters were on the show.
| by Anonymous | reply 12 | July 14, 2023 7:10 PM |
I think some comedy is more universal and not reliant on the time period. I think Seinfeld is still pretty funny today even though it came out in the 90s.
| by Anonymous | reply 13 | July 14, 2023 7:12 PM |
For a 60-year-old sitcom, "The Dick Van Dyke Show" holds up quite well today. It helps that it generally avoided topical humor and had fresh ideas for its scripts instead of recycling the tired sitcom tropes of its day. The only element I find tiresome is Rose Marie's "I'm desperate for a man" routine, but that was already stale when the show was fresh.
| by Anonymous | reply 14 | July 14, 2023 8:32 PM |
I caught an early episode of the Dick Van Dyke show one day and was surprised at the sexual innuendo in it.
| by Anonymous | reply 15 | July 14, 2023 8:45 PM |
On "CBS Sunday Morning" Ted Koppel interviewed people who visited Mount Airy, North Carolina, fans of Andy Griffith and Mayberry. It didn't take long to see this was a hit piece to make fun of anyone on the tour bus and then brought up race. Reminded them there were no Black characters on the series.
| by Anonymous | reply 16 | July 14, 2023 8:53 PM |
Agree about the Dick Van Dyke show
Among shows from the 50s and 60s I think The Twilight Zone holds up really well
| by Anonymous | reply 17 | July 14, 2023 8:54 PM |
Golden Girls holds up because its humor was character-driven and timeless. Jokes about mean old ladies, sluts, and stupid people never go out of style.
Designing Women (and its sassy sister series, Murphy Brown) do not hold up today because their humor is too topical. What the fuck is a Tailhook, or a Milli Vanilli, or a Dan Quayle?
| by Anonymous | reply 18 | July 14, 2023 8:59 PM |
[quote] How do you think "Sex and the City" will hold up 60 years from now?
It's hard to say; but I DO know they will love watching "And Just Like That." Audiences of the future will adore Che Diaz just as much as we do now!
| by Anonymous | reply 19 | July 14, 2023 9:01 PM |
For R18:
Tailhook -a military scandal that involved hazing and sexual assault of women at the annual Tailhook convention
Milli Vanilli -a pop duo that lost all cred and contracts when it came out that they couldn't sing live, and were only lip-syncing to the released recordings
Dan Quayle - a very dumb bird that was known for being unable to spell*
| by Anonymous | reply 20 | July 14, 2023 9:08 PM |
R20 Oh, I know what those things are. But this is what goes through the mind of an under-40 trying to watch Designing Women on Hulu.
They might also wonder who the hell Miss Valdosta Feed and Grain is, or who Consuela is, or why that Paul Lynde imitator keeps singing about a Black Man.
| by Anonymous | reply 21 | July 14, 2023 9:14 PM |
[quote]Milli Vanilli -a pop duo that lost all cred and contracts when it came out that they couldn't sing live, and were only lip-syncing to the released recordings
And lip-syncing to other people's voices, at that.
| by Anonymous | reply 22 | July 14, 2023 10:06 PM |
If they're puzzled by the jokes about Milli Vanilli and Dan Quayle and Tailhook on Designing Women, wouldn't they be just as confused by the jokes about Mr Burt Reynolds and Mr John Forsythe (or by the very special episode about chronic fatigue syndrome) on Golden Girls?
| by Anonymous | reply 23 | July 14, 2023 10:29 PM |
Burt Reynolds would probably be known to a lot of younger people. I'll give you John Forsythe though
| by Anonymous | reply 24 | July 14, 2023 10:34 PM |
^ Chronic fatigue syndrome is still very real, Dr. Budd
Now you just listen for a change:
Dorothy: Dr. Budd, I came to you sick. Sick and scared. And you dismissed me. You didn't have the answer. And instead of saying, "I'm sorry. I don't know what's wrong with you," you made me feel crazy, like I had made it all up. You dismissed me. You made me feel like a child, a fool, a neurotic who was wasting your precious time. Is that- Is that your caring profession? Is that healing? No one deserves that kind of treatment, Dr. Budd, no one. I suspect, had I been a man, I might have been taken a little bit more seriously and not told to go to a hairdresser.
Dr. Budd: Look, I am not going to sit here anymore-
Helen Budd: Shut up, Lewis.
Dorothy: I don't know where you doctors lose your humanity, but you lose it. You know, if all of you at the beginning of your careers could get very sick and scared for a while, you'd probably learn more from that than anything else. You'd better start listening to your patients. They need to be heard. They need caring, they need compassion. They need attending to. You know, someday, Dr. Budd, you're gonna be on the other side of the table, and as angry as I am, and as angry as I always will be, I still wish you a better doctor than you were to me.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 25 | July 14, 2023 10:37 PM |
Nostalgia for a fantasy world. Also writing and characterization actually mattered. Did I mention they used actual human actors and not AI.
| by Anonymous | reply 28 | July 15, 2023 12:51 AM |
They hold up today because they held up *then*. It's silly to compare a long running show from that era to one that only ran two seasons.
| by Anonymous | reply 29 | July 15, 2023 12:56 AM |
I've been catching up on the final seasons of "Gunsmoke" and it has held up exceptionally well -- some episodes were so beautifully written and acted that they would rival anything written and performed today. What's interesting is how much the show changed over its 20-year run -- it morphed from a standard shoot-'em-up western into an anthology-type series with many episodes not featuring the regular cast at all. The focus instead was on great guest star turns by many veteran actors (and lots of unknowns) who played various townspeople or other folks in stories that had virtually nothing to do with Dodge City and were just character analyses that began and ended in a single episode (with the "Gunsmoke" regulars, Marshal Matt Dillon in particular, either playing a very small role or making just a cameo). Of course, the biggest change was Amanda Blake's non-participation in the final season, though it was rumored, had the series been renewed, that she would have returned for season 21.
According to James Arness, the cast and producers were fully expecting to return for a 21st season but CBS blindsided them with a cancellation.
| by Anonymous | reply 31 | July 15, 2023 8:03 PM |
R25 That may have been one of the longest stretches of a GG episode that didn’t have a punchline in it, and Bea Arthur was magnificent. I can read those lines and hear “Maude” saying them, of course with a very different tone of voice. I think it was the kind of writing that Bea relished but could rarely get in GG due to the nature of the comedy in that show.
| by Anonymous | reply 32 | July 15, 2023 10:02 PM |
R32 do you think Arthur is using cue cards there?
| by Anonymous | reply 33 | July 16, 2023 12:22 AM |
[quote] How do you think "Sex and the City" will hold up 60 years from now?
It didn't hold up in its first run. Insipid show.
| by Anonymous | reply 34 | July 16, 2023 12:32 AM |
R33 I watched the scene again. After Bea sits down, she might have been glancing quickly at cue cards to the left of the actor playing the doctor, but she wasn't reading off of them, so she may have been glancing at them to remember the order of the sentences. Estelle Getty was struggling with dementia and needed more and more help remembering her lines as the show progressed.
If you've ever seen Bea's episode-long monologue at the psychiatrist's office in "Maude," some of which she spends lying on her back on a couch staring at the ceiling, unless they had cue cards hanging over her, she seems to have performed the entire episode from memory. That's not surprising because she was younger then and came from the theatre world.
| by Anonymous | reply 36 | July 16, 2023 6:04 AM |
"The Honeymooners" caught hell more recently for blatant spousal abuse, also the yelling. I also think politics are involved. I was surprised to learn recently the "classic 39" episodes are not on Paramount plus, where a lot of the old CBS/ Viacom shows are, including "I Love Lucy", Andy Griffith, Cheers, and several other iconic or classic shows. The Honeymooners is over on Pluto TV. People want an idealistic sweet fantasy, not screaming, yelling, and death threats from a fat republican loud mouth.
| by Anonymous | reply 37 | July 16, 2023 7:09 AM |
I really disagree to the poster who said Three’s Company doesn’t hold up. The hell it doesn’t.
| by Anonymous | reply 38 | July 16, 2023 7:15 AM |
"Three's Company" was never very good to begin with, and it's certainly not very good now. So I guess, in that sense, it has held up.
| by Anonymous | reply 39 | July 16, 2023 7:22 AM |
[quote]"The Honeymooners" caught hell more recently for blatant spousal abuse
Ralph was all bark and no bite.
| by Anonymous | reply 40 | July 16, 2023 7:29 AM |
Lucy Ricardo caught Lucille Ball at the exact right moment. Everything about her performance was inspiring and the writing was superb. Great chemistry with Vance, Arnaz and Frawley. Significant that none, including the writers ever did anything that even approached longevity. The writers, like Lucy, were the definition of diminishing returns. They even did the classic "Alice" .
| by Anonymous | reply 41 | July 16, 2023 2:04 PM |
R41, and you can see how the later episodes in Connecticut were just not as good either but many indeed still hold up.
| by Anonymous | reply 42 | July 16, 2023 3:02 PM |
I think Cagney and Lacey had aged well, the characters and the storylines are great. The only things that obviously dates it is they have no computers at work or cell phones when out on the streets.
Golden Girls is still really popular and has aged remarkably well. It seems to appeal to everyone,
| by Anonymous | reply 43 | July 16, 2023 3:22 PM |
Paramount + doesn't have several I Love Lucy episodes and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason for the ones that are missing.
This show should have caught a lot of flak for spousal abuse, too. Sure, the show is often laugh out loud funny but then Ricky will put Lucy over his knee and it's very shocking. Even when I was a kid watching reruns it shocked me how Ricky treated Lucy like a child and when he was mad at her she called him "sir."
| by Anonymous | reply 44 | July 16, 2023 3:59 PM |
[quote]This show should have caught a lot of flak for spousal abuse, too. Sure, the show is often laugh out loud funny but then Ricky will put Lucy over his knee and it's very shocking.
More literally shocking was the episode in which Lucy pretends to be doing a TV commercial by removing the picture tube and getting inside the TV cabinet, Ricky then tries to electrocute her by plugging in the television, causing sparks to fly. He literally tries to kill her.
| by Anonymous | reply 45 | July 16, 2023 5:56 PM |
^ Ricky had "friends" in the NYPD; they would've made it look like an accident.
| by Anonymous | reply 46 | July 16, 2023 6:01 PM |
r41 I think Vivian Vance was a large part of Lucy's success. Later Lucy iterations -- without Vance -- don't have the same charm. I think it was Madelyn Pugh who said the show was essentially about Lucy and Ethel's friendship.
| by Anonymous | reply 48 | July 16, 2023 6:08 PM |
R48, the first few seasons of The Lucy Show with Viv are very good and include some classic episodes like where Lucy and Viv put in a shower, put up a TV antenna, go to Night School, etc.
| by Anonymous | reply 49 | July 16, 2023 6:43 PM |
Agree with someone upthread. It's the quality of the writing.
| by Anonymous | reply 50 | July 17, 2023 4:09 AM |
Here's why the appeal of Gilligan's Island has lasted for decades:
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 51 | July 20, 2023 5:03 AM |
The funny thing about that lengthy Dorothy Chronic Fatigue monologue is that it ends with Dr. Budd scrunching up his face an saying, " watchoo talkin' 'bout, Willis!" and moon walking out of the restaurant to howls and applause from the studio audience
| by Anonymous | reply 52 | July 20, 2023 5:28 AM |
I like old TV shows. When I hear a dated reference that I am not familiar with, I go to Google and look it up - and in the process I'll learn a little something.
| by Anonymous | reply 54 | July 20, 2023 12:14 PM |
Another vote for Three’s Company aging well. I just watched the episode where Janet gets a blonde wig and her personality totally changes. I laughed my ass off. The few has few topical references, and its 70s quirks - houseplants, terry cloth, chef as career - are all in again!
One think I think actually helps a show age well is physical comedy. ILL, 3’sC, Seinfeld — all used it amply, and honestly watching someone fall or bump into something never really gets old.
| by Anonymous | reply 55 | July 20, 2023 12:29 PM |
[quote]Most shows from the era of "I Love Lucy" and "The Andy Griffith Show" are unwatchable today.
I recently finished LEAVE IT TO BEAVER (1957-1963) and am currently on FATHER KNOWS BEST (1954-1960).
I loved LITB and am immensely enjoying FKB. Perhaps slightly more. 'Wally' and 'Bud' are my favorite characters from each show. I like that they have a lot of storylines. They're both attractive -- 'Bud,' in particular, is a great actor -- and it's fun to see the lifestyle of 1950s middle class teenagers.
My grandparents (who died within months of each other a decade ago) always said those two shows best represented their '50s middle class upbringing, but I avoided them for years because they seemed schmaltzy/hokey and were in black-and-white to boot.
I also like that Kathy and the Beav, the babies of their respective families, are not annoying brats but actually quite cute and likable. You root for the entire immediate family from both shows.
Furthermore, as others have pointed out, the writing on these old shows is impeccable. At times, an episode (especially of FKB) felt like a mini-play. So much was said/done, sometimes in just one or two locations, in only 25 minutes or less.
| by Anonymous | reply 56 | July 20, 2023 1:28 PM |
I don't like most old shows because when I watch them I wonder about our mentality and that we actually enjoyed it. I do like Lucy and even though Cheers is newer I found that it still made me laugh. I had loved the Twilight Zone but find that now it is just boring or creeps me out. I did enjoy watching Andy Griffith again but all the others I tried watching I didn't even make it thru the first episode.
I used to love old movies from the 40's/50's and I could still watch them today. I detest movies from the 70's as the quality is awful, acting, filming, etc. The80's/90's movies bore me.
| by Anonymous | reply 58 | July 20, 2023 4:16 PM |
I just watched an episode of The Odd Couple that I've seen multiple times and it still made me laugh out loud (ignoring the bad 1970s fashion). I think it comes down to good actors, good writing, and good situations and not relying on gimmicks.
| by Anonymous | reply 59 | July 20, 2023 4:33 PM |
I've been trying to watch the old MTM series.
I loved it as a kid, but now not so much.
The supporting cast of characters is still excellent but I've lost my love for Mary herself.
Sue Ann, Phyllis and Rhoda are all better than the star.
| by Anonymous | reply 60 | July 20, 2023 4:36 PM |
R4
[quotation] but from the 50s ILL stands alone as still being funny
You should watch some episodes of “Sgt Bilko / Phil Silvers Show - still laugh out loud funny and with an unmatched cast of hilarious character actors.
| by Anonymous | reply 61 | July 20, 2023 5:05 PM |
R60 I watched MTM a few years ago and enjoyed it okay.
One thing I found amusing was that everyone was tanned in almost every episode even though it takes place in freaking Minnesota, which doesn't have that type of sun from fall to spring.
Lots of blond, pale people there.
Obviously, the show was shot in LA.
| by Anonymous | reply 62 | July 20, 2023 5:12 PM |
Rhoda has really not held up well, either her own show or her appearances on MTM. The Bob Newhart Show was intentionally claustrophobic but once you get into it, it remains genuinely wonderful. The Norman Lear shows are very hit and miss. AITF, once considered too topical for reruns, is now harrowing. But still funny. There are those that think the Beverly LaSalle episodes were Lear trying to force transgenders into different bathrooms.
| by Anonymous | reply 63 | July 20, 2023 5:15 PM |
The fear of flying episode on The Odd Couple is one of my all time favorite TV episodes. The show is great and still holds up. Very little if any topical humor. Purely character driven. And Neil Simon because of a bad agent didn't get a penny from it though it was in syndication for ages.
| by Anonymous | reply 64 | July 20, 2023 5:27 PM |
The discussion had been purely about sitcoms, although OP just mentioned "shows." Perry Mason is one (hour long) TV show I enjoy watching to this day.
| by Anonymous | reply 65 | July 20, 2023 7:02 PM |
Thanks to the plethora of rerun channels, I have been able to watch several series from episode one to the end, including the Beverly hillbillies, our miss brooks, Hazel, the Lucy show, here’s Lucy, my favorite Martian, petticoat junction and really, only the Dick Van Dyke show and I love Lucy stand up to multiple repeated viewings.
But r56 has inspired me to watch Leave it to Beaver and father knows best. Thanks for the heads up.
| by Anonymous | reply 66 | July 20, 2023 7:40 PM |
I guess R52 was trying to be funny.
| by Anonymous | reply 67 | July 20, 2023 7:47 PM |
I think LITB is the most realistic family sitcom. The parents are strict but they admit when they screw up. The kids are mercifully free from wisecracking or sarcasm. Another thing I like about this show is its caring attitude towards animals.
On the other hand, each kid on FKB is very neurotic - Betty and Kathy having regular crying fits and Bud often sounds like a little old man - and the regular happy family self-aggrandizement the family as a whole resorts to does not endear them to me.
Of course, now both series feel like they were made on a different planet compared to contemporary family oriented sitcoms, but I think LITB has held up much better because it's just more true to the way normal people really act. June always gets mocked for wearing pearls while vacuuming, but nothing gets past her. Whereas Margaret Anderson seems like a total drudge.
| by Anonymous | reply 68 | July 20, 2023 8:28 PM |
[quote]The kids [on LITB] are mercifully free from wisecracking or sarcasm.
[quote]Betty and Kathy [on FKB] having regular crying fits
R68 ah, but FKB had two daughters and LITB had none.
Girls are often neurotic; boys are generally easygoing.
| by Anonymous | reply 69 | July 20, 2023 8:57 PM |
[quote]Of course, now both series feel like they were made on a different planet compared to contemporary family oriented sitcoms, but I think LITB has held up much better
Something else that makes "Leave It to Beaver" stand out (I find DL's fondness for abbreviations tiresome) and distinguishes it from other family sitcoms of the era is that its stories were told from the kids' point of view.
| by Anonymous | reply 70 | July 20, 2023 9:12 PM |
Also, Eddie Haskell was a dick and that was always funny...
| by Anonymous | reply 71 | July 20, 2023 9:19 PM |
R64, also the ticket scalping episode, which gave us "You should never assume. Because when you assume, you make an 'ass' out of 'U' and 'me'!" I wonder if they had to fight the censors for saying "ass" back then.
| by Anonymous | reply 72 | July 20, 2023 10:02 PM |
During a DL discussion of Joan Davis (only on DL, I know) I watched a few episodes of "I Married Joan," which was a direct attempt to copy "I Love Lucy" (as the credit sequence says, "starring America's QUEEN OF COMEDY, Joan Davis!").
It ran for three years, but it's unwatchable today — Joan is irritating and coarse, her slapstick is painful, the storylines are beyond stupid and it's obvious that Jim Backus (playing her husband) absolutely hates her in real life; he looks pained whenever he has to touch her.
I can't imagine this holding up at the time, much less today.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 73 | July 20, 2023 10:15 PM |
"Bewitched" seems to have held its own among all gay men.
| by Anonymous | reply 74 | July 21, 2023 2:51 AM |
Are there any of you who DON'T like Bewitched?
| by Anonymous | reply 75 | July 21, 2023 2:52 AM |
Frankly, I prefer I DREAM OF JEANNIE for the sole reason that Larry Hagman was hotter/sexier than any of the Dicks on BEWITCHED.
Plus, Tony wasn't a whiny bitch about Jeannie using her powers.
In fact, he often took advantage of her powers.
| by Anonymous | reply 76 | July 21, 2023 9:07 AM |
[quote] Also the ticket scalping episode, which gave us "You should never assume. Because when you assume, you make an 'ass' out of 'U' and 'me'!"
R72 I still remember the way Tony Randall as Felix questioned that witness, who was named “Beth Olam.” The supercilious way he addressed her as “Miss O-LAM” still makes me laugh. If you’ve ever seen Tony Randall on a “What’s My Line?” episode from the late 1950s and the early 1960s, he sometimes questioned contestants the same way.
And then there’s the issue of the somewhat odd name “Beth Olam.” Get this tidbit from IMDB:
[quote] The reason the studio audience at the show's taping can be heard laughing when Felix says in court the name of the woman who was offered the extra ticket (Beth Olam), is because the show was filmed in Los Angeles, and there's a well-known cemetery named Beth Olam in Los Angeles, as well as Brooklyn, NY.
So, Leonard Rosenberg (Tony Randall’s real name) talking to “Beth Olam” was an inside joke to those who knew about the Jewish cemeteries.
| by Anonymous | reply 77 | July 22, 2023 12:25 AM |
Our Miss Brooks (when you can find it) is often hilarious. No one handles a line like Eve Arden and some of the characters and how they’re written (Mrs. Davis) are very funny. I like Burns and Allen as a team but though I did watch the TV show I don’t think it was as good as it could have been.
I’ve been watching All In The Family reruns recently on Freevee and I’ve gotten to season 8 and many, many of the episodes over all the seasons are either hilarious or powerful or both. It’s amazing a show was still that good in its 8th season.
The Honeymooners was a funny show. If you watch the originals with Pert Kelton you can see it’s a show about a couple that fights and yells (hilariously) but loves each other in their crazy way. Audrey Meadows was more pretty and feminine, maybe that’s why people see Ralph as “abusive”? Alice (played by anyone) is no shrinking violet and gives as good as she gets, and of course, Ralph never wins. She always gets the better of him. That’s the humor but younger people don’t have a sense of humor.
| by Anonymous | reply 78 | July 22, 2023 12:55 AM |
You Bet Your Life with Groucho Marx is hilarious. One day when I was home sick from work I watched it all day.
| by Anonymous | reply 79 | July 22, 2023 1:02 AM |
I Love Lucy often had Lucy “obeying” Ricky, who was the boss, she often said “Yessir” to him. While Alice never took any shit from Ralph.
| by Anonymous | reply 80 | July 22, 2023 2:12 AM |
R80, the "yessir" or "yes ma'am" was something Lucy said to many people, not just Ricky.
| by Anonymous | reply 81 | July 22, 2023 2:19 AM |
This AITF episode featuring Jack Gilford came towards the end of the series but I was stunned at how much power it still commands. A real example of how great the series was.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 82 | July 22, 2023 2:23 AM |
“ If they're puzzled by the jokes about Milli Vanilli and Dan Quayle and Tailhook on Designing Women, wouldn't they be just as confused by the jokes about Mr Burt Reynolds and Mr John Forsythe”
I still don’t know who John Cameron Swayze is, but when you have outstanding actors, deliver a line, like this, it was just funny on its own: “ Yes, but the last time it was Woolworth's, a toenail clipper, and John Cameron Swayze.”
| by Anonymous | reply 83 | July 22, 2023 2:29 AM |
I was recently visiting my elderly dad. He keeps MEtv on all day. While I wasn’t all that interested in the westerns, I did find myself oddly interested in Adam 12, a show I don’t think I’ve seen before.
| by Anonymous | reply 84 | July 22, 2023 2:50 AM |
R81 People in authority. Which is how she acted with her husband - at times. It wasn’t consistent. But he did at times act like the parent and she was the child.
| by Anonymous | reply 85 | July 22, 2023 3:05 AM |
R83 That line isn’t funny on its own. What’s the context?
John Cameron Swayze was a newscaster, and for years was a spokesman for Timex watches.
| by Anonymous | reply 86 | July 22, 2023 3:08 AM |
I've been watching "My Little Margie" on Tubi, and it's amusing. It was originally created as a summer replacement for "I Love Lucy."
Sure, some of Margie's antics are dated, but it features silver daddy Charles Farrell as Margie's father Vern Albright.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 87 | July 22, 2023 4:35 AM |
The topical references on ILL weren't rare, but I remembered them because I didn't know what they meant. It was often names:
Fred: You're a regular Ricky Margaret McBride Ethel: I'm Mary Margaret McMertz Minnie Finch: Hey, your name ain't Kinsey, is it? Lucy: Thank you Hedda and Lolly
| by Anonymous | reply 88 | July 22, 2023 5:04 AM |
[quote]John Cameron Swayze was a newscaster, and for years was a spokesman for Timex watches.
Elldergay here who remembers him only from the Timex commercials and his catchphrase "It takes a licking and keeps on ticking." The commercials would show a Timex watch being run over by a truck or dropped from a tall building and continuing to work.
| by Anonymous | reply 89 | July 22, 2023 8:11 AM |
Swayze was (I think) one of the first or *the* first TV newscaster(s). He preceded Huntley And Brinkley as anchor of the NBC News.He had a sort of actor-ish delivery that went out of style.
| by Anonymous | reply 90 | July 22, 2023 10:02 AM |
Of the 80s soaps, just limiting it to the top 2 Dallas and Dynasty, personally I can say that Dynasty doesn't hold up well at all. And just like previous posters state, I blame the writing here, too.
Dallas was not Shakespeare. But in its height (5th to 9th season) it did some superb plotting. The way story lines intertwined at the end was masterfully done. And you had iconic and archetypical characters. Dynasty usually didn't have good season long plotting, except maybe the second and last season. And only two or three characters were remarkable. The rest was pretty forgettable. The writing was just so damn by the book. It's like the writers screamed 'even we don't care'. What hurts Dynasty in addition was cheap production. Big dresses and jewelry ... fine. But the show used the same four sets over and over, hardly any outdoor shots. Dallas filmed at least a third of its seasons in Dallas and on Southfork. That made the show visually so much more appealing.
| by Anonymous | reply 91 | July 22, 2023 6:07 PM |
R91 — Please watch Knots Landing.
| by Anonymous | reply 92 | July 22, 2023 9:47 PM |
start from the perspective--almost nothing holds up to time. The movies you watched and enjoyed 30 years ago hold virtually nothing for a 25 year old today. The TV shows or comedy albums you laughed at so hard you cried--don't expect anyone under 50 to get a moment of enjoyment from them.
There are some projects that DO hold up and can appeal to current younger generations. They are few and far between and most people are terrible at determining which those are.
| by Anonymous | reply 94 | July 22, 2023 9:59 PM |
Any show that uses old technology such as flip phones and desk top computers don't hold up well. Once I see a flip phone, old ass monitor or TV, I'm too distracted to enjoy the show. This includes shows from the early aughts.
| by Anonymous | reply 95 | July 22, 2023 10:05 PM |
I don’t give a shit if Blanche sexted. It’s a great show.
| by Anonymous | reply 96 | July 22, 2023 10:28 PM |
[quote] The movies you watched and enjoyed 30 years ago hold virtually nothing for a 25 year old today.
I hope that's not universally true. A standard Hitchcock movie is still meeting gold standards.
| by Anonymous | reply 97 | July 22, 2023 11:38 PM |
I think My Little Margie is very weird.
Margie and her father have such an intense interest in each other’s love lives.
Plus it’s sad to see how poorly Charles Farrell aged.
| by Anonymous | reply 98 | July 22, 2023 11:44 PM |
Original Outer Limits. Perfection!!!
Just finished rewatching Perry Mason. Raymond Burr really was a wonderful actor. The whole cast just clicked so well. And it's not dated. And Raymond Burr hot as hell!!
| by Anonymous | reply 99 | July 23, 2023 5:23 AM |
This thread title immediately brings to mind Sex and the City. It's unwatchable now.
| by Anonymous | reply 100 | July 23, 2023 5:29 AM |
R100, I'd add Absolutely Fabulous to the list as well.
| by Anonymous | reply 101 | July 23, 2023 5:39 AM |
So why is Sex and the City unwatchable now? What did the writing do that made it hard to watch even just ten years after the show ended? It wasn't THAT topical, was it? IMO it's a cynical 90s attitude that Seinfeld has too. But that may not be it.
| by Anonymous | reply 102 | July 23, 2023 12:48 PM |
R102, no one wants to revisit aging whores fucking their way through all the men in Manhattan.
| by Anonymous | reply 104 | July 23, 2023 1:12 PM |
R78 I enjoy “Our Miss Brooks” too, though I’ve only seen the first season. I mainly know it through radio, which I personally find funnier than the TV incarnation.
| by Anonymous | reply 105 | July 23, 2023 1:21 PM |
Actually a. Lot of younger people like lder music and movies. I mean I know teens who love dazed And Confused and that’s from 1991 and is about 1976.
| by Anonymous | reply 106 | July 23, 2023 6:39 PM |
Sorry, it’s my keyboard.
| by Anonymous | reply 107 | July 23, 2023 6:40 PM |
I also enjoy "Our Miss Brooks," mostly because of Eve Arden and her wonderful comic timing, but it also reminds me how tiresome Gale Gordon's shtick became long before he joined "The Lucy Show."
| by Anonymous | reply 108 | July 23, 2023 8:04 PM |
I remember when Richard Burton was on Here’s Lucy, he said Gale Gordon (who I don’t think he’d seen much, before) was a wonderful actor with a great voice, and should have been doing Shakespeare. I think GG had these qualities, it was just watching his same old schtick as the flustered ‘authority figure’ that wore me out. Maybe he had more in him.
| by Anonymous | reply 109 | July 23, 2023 8:18 PM |
[quote] No one wants to revisit aging whores fucking their way through all the men in Manhattan.
R104 Wait, was Sex and the City about gay men? Actually, I often thought the female lead characters were TV “euphemisms” for gay men.
| by Anonymous | reply 110 | July 23, 2023 8:43 PM |
Gale Gordon was always insufferable. It would have totally wrecked ILL if he had played Fred Mertz. The only time I warmed to him was in the final Lucy special Lucy Calls the President, where he dropped the imperious nature.
| by Anonymous | reply 111 | July 23, 2023 9:24 PM |
After the final television season of "Our Miss Brooks," a feature film was made, also called "Our Miss Brooks." It didn't pick up where the TV show left off. Instead, it told Connie Brooks' story from the beginning, when she accepts a teaching job at Madison High and moves in with Mrs. Davis. [SPOILER ALERT} The ending is sort of sweet. Mr. Boynton buys a house and proposes to Miss Brooks.
| by Anonymous | reply 112 | July 23, 2023 10:43 PM |
It was weird to see “Our Miss Brooks” without the live audience laughter (the movie).
| by Anonymous | reply 113 | July 24, 2023 4:06 AM |
Old Monty Python holds up very well.
| by Anonymous | reply 114 | July 24, 2023 4:20 AM |
R113 It was. The movie was sweet but didn’t have the same punch without an audience.
| by Anonymous | reply 115 | July 24, 2023 1:48 PM |
Our Miss Brooks is on Tubi.
| by Anonymous | reply 116 | July 25, 2023 10:55 AM |
If a sitcom used traditional writers who wrote strong stand alone episodes with traditional themes and without too many cultural references, the stories are ETERNAL.
| by Anonymous | reply 117 | July 25, 2023 11:19 AM |
I like the cultural references.
| by Anonymous | reply 118 | July 25, 2023 1:29 PM |
r97 I am not an expert on Hitchcock but probably more than most here. I have read multiple books on him and seen over 30 of his movies.
I stand by the assertion that most of his films would not work for today's audiences. Maybe 5 or 6 of em. And I wouldn't put Vertigo or Psycho on that list. It's not even the most academically or critically acclaimed ones that would work. Vertigo is too slow (some of those scenes go on several minutes too long) and the way the obsession plays out is far too abstract for today's audiences.
Rope might work for today's audiences. Fast pacing. The Birds would hold up too. The Man Who Knew Too Much would also make the list.
| by Anonymous | reply 119 | July 26, 2023 3:59 AM |
r97 i should've also mentioned REAR WINDOW and STRANGERS ON A TRAIN as modern audience pleasers. MAYBE Notorious,Spellbound, and The 39 Steps
| by Anonymous | reply 120 | July 26, 2023 4:04 AM |
[quote] Any show that uses old technology such as flip phones and desk top computers don't hold up well. Once I see a flip phone, old ass monitor or TV, I'm too distracted to enjoy the show. This includes shows from the early aughts.
R95 To each his own, I guess but does that also mean you can’t watch shows with land line phones, old TV sets, old cars, or people writing letters? Will you not be able to watch today’s shows in 10 years?
| by Anonymous | reply 121 | July 26, 2023 4:13 AM |
Could you please cite your sources or provide evidence on what will and won't 'work' for a contemporary audience? I realize that this is just an anonymous gossip message board so people can say whatever the hell they want without any support, so...I say this as a university professor who teaches film studies (which again, I can just make up because this is an anonymous site and we can say whatever we want, but I am) so I'm a bit suspicious about your claims.
| by Anonymous | reply 122 | July 26, 2023 11:15 PM |
Like 118, I really like the cultural references. I enjoy today’s technology in that watching something older (or not) can be a little interactive as I’m Googling references, etc.
| by Anonymous | reply 123 | July 26, 2023 11:20 PM |
Before you could Google references, you had to ask your parents.
| by Anonymous | reply 124 | July 27, 2023 12:13 AM |
Good writing, good directing , good acting good storytelling
duh!
| by Anonymous | reply 125 | July 27, 2023 12:16 AM |
r122 Its been years since I've watched the Hitchcock movies so not sure I would stand by my list of his films that would work for today's audiences. I was shocked rewatching Vertigo at how slow the scenes moved (and how long they were). I did have the opportunity to watch over 20 Hitchcock films with a film school student audience back in the day though. Since you asked, the ability to get some sense of how an audience will react comes down to how close it mirrors traditional Hollywood movies. Clear main characters in relentless pursuit of a goal works best. also how they go about creative problem solving.
| by Anonymous | reply 126 | July 31, 2023 6:56 PM |
I thought Gail Gordon was tolerable in Our Miss Brooks because he was not a hapless rube, he actually had authority and position, and Miss Brooks did not always get over on him.
| by Anonymous | reply 127 | July 31, 2023 9:17 PM |
On every Lucy show except Lucy Calls The President, Gordon had authority and position and he was always insufferable.
| by Anonymous | reply 128 | July 31, 2023 11:12 PM |
[quote]I thought Gail Gordon was tolerable in Our Miss Brooks because he was not a hapless rube, he actually had authority and position, and Miss Brooks did not always get over on him.
In other words, he was the same tiresome, imperious authority figure he usually played. One time he didn't play such a character was when he took over the Mr. Wilson role on "Dennis the Menace" after the sudden death of Joseph Kearns. Gordon played the brother of Kearns' chyaracter, and wasn't nearly as funny or endearing as Kearns had been. Gordon played the role in the most predictable way, forever exasperated and irritated by Dennis. Kearns was also exasperated by Dennis, but he also conveyed that, despite everything, his Mr. Wilson was actually rather fond of Dennis. Gordon just wasn't a very good actor. Everything was on the surface.
| by Anonymous | reply 129 | July 31, 2023 11:40 PM |
OP, whether an old show 'holds up' (a subjective opinion) or not may not correlate to why it's still on the air in reruns (objective choices by a distribution owner and network - $$).
| by Anonymous | reply 130 | August 1, 2023 12:33 AM |
I think Streets of San Francisco holds up very well, and the sepia toned nostalgia vibe is great for a couch potato weed session.
Michael Douglas' cameltoe in beige slacks is a plus too.
| by Anonymous | reply 131 | August 1, 2023 12:39 AM |
A lot of the radio actors who got into TV or movies can tend to act with the voice, mainly. People think Raymond Burr is great. I have a fondness for him, too, but I notice in some of his old movies he’s rather one-note even when he’s in a large role. He had a big role opposite Barbara Stanwyck in some movie and he was rather a weak actor. No real emotion. William Conrad was another one whose deep voice was perfect for radio and I like him too but these actors are almost all voice with not a lot of real depth.
A lot of early TV was just “radio with pictures” which is one reason I Love Lucy was better than a lot of early TV. Based on My Favorite Husband, yes, but unlike radio it had a feeling of spontaneity and the comedy was both verbal and visual, plus the characters had depth. There were some unbelievable things, of course.
| by Anonymous | reply 132 | August 3, 2023 12:56 PM |
All in The Family is still 💯. It came out before I was born but it is so raw in how it handled topics. Smart and funny TV. The Johnny Carson show is still great to watch. It comes on one of extended channels 9.3. After coming home from work I watch that instead of the subscription apps. It's just a funny show and Johnny is a magnificent host.
| by Anonymous | reply 133 | August 3, 2023 1:28 PM |
R133, now we're all supposed to shout "how funny is it?" so you can come back with an "it's so funny that ..." joke. 😁 Carson's monologs were almost always funny, and his banter with the guests was great.
All in the Family, on the other hand, I find hard to watch. It's too strident and preachy.
| by Anonymous | reply 134 | August 3, 2023 8:28 PM |
All in the Family was one of the funniest shows of all time.
| by Anonymous | reply 135 | August 3, 2023 8:32 PM |
[quote]All in the Family, on the other hand, I find hard to watch. It's too strident and preachy.
A lot of those Norman Lear sitcoms are like that -- THE JEFFERSONS, MAUDE, ONE DAY AT A TIME.
All very shouty and preachy.
| by Anonymous | reply 136 | August 3, 2023 8:35 PM |
R136, I agree, but all but ONE...DAY At a Time could be quite funny...
| by Anonymous | reply 137 | August 3, 2023 9:49 PM |
Maybe in the few scenes that didn't have Bonnie Franklin in them, R137.
| by Anonymous | reply 138 | August 3, 2023 10:06 PM |
I loved All In The Family when it was first on - I still enjoy it - but I have always wondered what Gloria saw in Michael.
| by Anonymous | reply 139 | August 3, 2023 10:24 PM |
I haven't scrolled through the entire thread... am I at least the second person who feels Barney Miller" has held up well?
Enjoy the opening/closing credit sequences, the excellent theme which gets re-worked (better and better), Max Gail's beefy ass, Hal Linden's great smile and more.
| by Anonymous | reply 140 | August 3, 2023 11:29 PM |
oops - apologies... here's the Barney Miller link
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 141 | August 3, 2023 11:30 PM |
Here’s my list
Barney Miller
St Elsewhere
All In The Family
Gunsmoke
Law & Order (Mothership)
Twilight Zone
And 1 miniseries
Centennial
They never fail to hold my attention. I think it’s because it feels like great care went into the writing. They just hold up for me.
| by Anonymous | reply 142 | August 6, 2023 2:52 PM |
I did watch Gunsmoke when it was on in prime time (near the end, the main characters were old) but it was never a favorite. I remember Jeanette Nolan did some character called Dirty Sally and they tried to make a spinoff series from it.
| by Anonymous | reply 143 | August 6, 2023 5:33 PM |
Jeanette Nolan pops up in guest spots on so many classic TV shows, and it's hard to find one in which she isn't shamelessly chewing the scenery.
| by Anonymous | reply 144 | August 6, 2023 6:07 PM |
R144 Ditto her husband John McIntyre.
| by Anonymous | reply 145 | August 6, 2023 6:11 PM |
Jeanette Nolan plays Lady Macbeth in Orson Welles' film of the Scottish play. When I finally saw it, I laughed out loud at the end of Lady Macbeth's mad scene. She goes "woo-wooing" off into the distance exactly like Daddy Duck does in the old Warner Bros. cartoons.
| by Anonymous | reply 147 | August 6, 2023 6:22 PM |
I’m not a big fan of Jeanette but she wasn’t bad with the Swedish accent in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance. And I thought she was particularly good as evil Mrs. Lagana in The Big Heat, where Gloria Graham tells her they’re sisters under the mink.
| by Anonymous | reply 148 | August 7, 2023 1:36 PM |
R142, in a sense I like Twilight Zone almost too much. I've seen some of the episodes so many times, it's hard to find anything new. I miss the old TZ marathons on the SciFi Channel (not yet SyFy) on Labor Day weekend. It was so much fun waiting to see which episode was next and a special treat when one you hadn't seen or particularly liked came on.
There are other episodes, though, that I've seen once or perhaps twice because I hate the warm and sentimental ones, and I hate even more the super-preachy ones. "Super-" because almost every episode is at least somewhat preachy. I think if Rod Serling couldn't incorporate a Nazi, a nuclear war reference, a bully, an example of man's inhumanity to man, an oppressed intellectual, and a civil right message in every episode, he considered himself a failure for the week.
| by Anonymous | reply 149 | August 7, 2023 10:10 PM |
