As foreigners flock to buy old, inexpensive houses in Italy, one group has gone a step further, helping to revive a depopulated town.
Irsina, deep in the southern Basilicata region, is home to over 300 non-Italians from 12 different countries, alongside 4,000 local residents.
Walking along the narrow alleys, all sorts of accents – American, Canadian, French, Norwegian – can be heard. There’s even a road which locals have rebranded “the Belgian Street” due to the many Belgians who live there.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 47 | May 5, 2023 4:21 PM |
And they keep buying houses and expanding their properties, spreading the word back home of this dreamy location which seems to be frozen in time. Each time they come back, they bring along relatives and friends, all of whom become happy to spend between 20,000 and 150,000 euros ($22,000-$165,000) for a spacious dwelling with bucolic views.
| by Anonymous | reply 1 | April 26, 2023 5:09 AM |
NYC has the newest, “big best” Needle skyscraper luxury apartment building - the tallest skyscraper in NYC - which is 100% sold out and less than 20% of any “owners” actually live there. Russians and Saudis keep “winning” in post/pre-Trump Amerikkka.
| by Anonymous | reply 2 | April 26, 2023 5:16 AM |
But wouldn’t it have to be a vacation home? Even if you own local property, can you stay in foreign countries indefinitely?
| by Anonymous | reply 4 | April 26, 2023 5:51 AM |
In Italy at least, you can get a residency permit. It doesn't allow you to work, and you have to show a source of regular income from outside the country. It is for 1 year - and then you can renew it yearly. (Of course there are fees and paperwork involved). After 5 years, you can apply for a permanent residency visa. After 10 years, you can apply for Italian citizenship. I think a number of these people just go back and forth to their countries of origin, and renew their tourist visas or short term residency visas whenever they return.
| by Anonymous | reply 6 | April 26, 2023 8:16 AM |
A lot of those small Italian towns are dying from a youthful outflux -- Italy has one of the world's oldest populations -- and thus I see no problem with this.
| by Anonymous | reply 7 | April 26, 2023 8:20 AM |
Italy is spending hundreds of millions to save dying villages.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 8 | April 26, 2023 9:44 AM |
It's money well spent in my mind, R8. Italy has a real variety of local programs: €1 houses with requirements to renovate and live in them; small business incentives for local services (bread bakers, shops offering vital goods and services); low-cost houses with incentives to renovate and fill them; incentives to lure young people to small towns... The details vary considerably by location but all have the same purpose in mind: to bring back life in small towns and redevelop them as places for every day life, not dying towns sucked dry of vitality and feasibility.
Spain has similar problems in many places with a similar range of solutions floated, but less international publicity and less coordination overall; it takes some effort to find them.
It can be difficult to arrive at some success, or to the success that was initially hoped for, or to measure it or replicate it elsewhere, but I think it's incredibly important.
| by Anonymous | reply 9 | April 26, 2023 10:38 AM |
Take my money - I’d move there.
| by Anonymous | reply 10 | April 26, 2023 10:52 AM |
r11 No, and no Trader Joe's, either! Dealbreaker!
| by Anonymous | reply 12 | April 26, 2023 8:09 PM |
How would one manage to sustain oneself in an Italian village with no Trader Joe's?
Such primitive conditions are not to be tolerated by sophisticated American tastes.
| by Anonymous | reply 13 | April 26, 2023 9:02 PM |
Maybe I could move there and make a killing opening a McDonald’s? (Just thinking out loud here.) I could open a Burger King, too, just to cover the bases.
| by Anonymous | reply 14 | April 26, 2023 9:41 PM |
And an Eataly, R14, oh, and maybe an Olive Garden!
| by Anonymous | reply 15 | April 26, 2023 9:51 PM |
Yes! AND A RED LOBSTER!!
All the residents would [italic]love me!
| by Anonymous | reply 16 | April 26, 2023 9:54 PM |
[quote]R15 And an Eataly, [R14], oh, and maybe an Olive Garden!
Good thought. I think this would be most respectful of the local culture. We can advertise “Eyetalian Food, The Way You Like It!”
We will need a Domino’s Pizza, too. Can you be in charge of that?
| by Anonymous | reply 17 | April 26, 2023 10:00 PM |
Seriously, what's life like in a town where they're practically giving away houses? Do the houses have electricity and plumbing? Are there any local services? Is it possible to live there if you don't speak much Italian? How gay-friendly are small towns with an aging population? If you buy real estate, do they ease you through the immigration process? Is the Mafia interested in these little places, or in local small businesses?
Because if the Republicans win more elections, I'm definitely interested...
| by Anonymous | reply 18 | April 26, 2023 10:42 PM |
R18: it all depends on the location. Each locality where such s program or programs exist has its own character and rules for the incentives and residency. The €1 house schemes get a lot of attention but often there are low-priced houses in habitable condition without the programmatic hurdles and these are often better choices. The €1 houses often require substantial work that must be permitted by local officials; the improvements may be very low cost but substantial. An existing habitable house can be the cheaper investment in the long run, requiring less work and being able to move in directly. With fewer administrative hurdles.
There are perks for shop owners and small investors in services that benefit the town, for creating additional habitable housing units, for touristic development, etc.
Some towns have lost some their local services like bars and restaurants and shops and restoring these functions is obviously a vital benefit to quality if life. Some towns have ate shrinking, some have already list significant population and services and as a result are short on quality of life features. Some towns need certain types of people: teachers or medical staff. Many programs encourage younger people and even families as one goal is boosting population; some programs are limited by age to weed out part-time retiree investors looking for a lock-it and leave-it second home that contributes less to the local well being.
The goal, after all, is not to create second homes for English speakers from the U.S. and UK but full time residents who contribute to the local economy and create demand for local services - reopening small shops and services that once we're commonplace and have disappeared or diminished.
It's relatively easy to get a residency permit as a homeowner and they are easily renewed. Some programs are much better at cutting through bureaucracy than others.
I don't know of any reports on reaction to younger gays and lesbians moving to small towns with older populations, but the general perception is that outsiders who help the local economy and advocate for local services for residents and become active neighbors are well received.
Here's one (of endless) guides to some local programs.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 20 | April 26, 2023 11:21 PM |
I imagine Japan must be going through something similar.
| by Anonymous | reply 21 | April 27, 2023 12:01 PM |
R20
Wow. Thank you for all that information. Do you live in Italy? Are you a native, or have you made use of these programs?
I'd love to move, and could probably gain citizenship through my mother - who was born there but I haven't been able to find out if she gave up her Italian citizenship when she became an American citizen - but I have a chronic medical condition and need Medicare, which will not pay outside of thee U.S.
Moore power to you all that go.
| by Anonymous | reply 22 | April 27, 2023 12:18 PM |
R21, I had read reports of vacant housing in Japan, but I found this article interesting for its focus on historic houses. Some beautiful ones.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 23 | April 27, 2023 12:20 PM |
R22: I'm not Italian or a resident but live in Spain where there are similar depopulation trends in some rural areas and small towns.
As I understand it, whether your mother had to renounce her Italian citizenship to gain American citizenship may not matter. That was the standard/unavoidable process until 1992 or so and is not penalized. More important is whether she had or was entitled to Italian citizenship at birth. In any case, you would have to apply and submit documentation (birth certificates, etc.); there are agencies that do this for a fee (agencies usually charge from a few hundred to a thousand or so $, though you can do it yourself easily enough.)
As for health care in Italy, here's a brief summary. The important thing is that while Medicare is of no use to you in Italy, health care insurance for foreign residents is vastly cheaper than in the U.S.: estimates range from $1300 to $2300 a year for a small family to $100 to $500 a month for very complete coverage of an individual. You can cover yourself fully or as a supplement to national health care if you are eligible. All depends on your situation but existing conditions are accommodated much better in the EU than in the U.S. A cost comparison might show that while losing your U.S. benefits, the cost of Italian health care may be affordable.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 24 | April 27, 2023 12:52 PM |
I looked at this village on Google Earth. I’d describe it as having the look of an abandoned house where someone keeps the grass cut. Don’t see many cars. It’s kind of hard to tell which buildings are businesses, though I did spot one sad looking cafe. I think if you lived there, you’d have to be okay with everyday feeling like Sunday.
| by Anonymous | reply 25 | April 27, 2023 2:09 PM |
Yeah, it's easy to romanticize the village life, but I would be afraid of dying from boredom and monotony. I would guess most of these places are off the beaten track in terms of transit. Maybe you have one crappy little grocery store in town, if that. Everything else would require a slog to the next larger city. Forget about going to the gym, cinema, theater, concerts, or having lots of different ethnic restaurants around.
| by Anonymous | reply 26 | April 27, 2023 2:23 PM |
[quote] you’d have to be okay with everyday feeling like Sunday.
That's what a lot of Southern Italy just feels like in general.
| by Anonymous | reply 27 | April 27, 2023 2:24 PM |
Yes, R26 and R27, but don't forget that hour or two every day when you can take a small chair into the street to sit, gossiping with your neighbors.
| by Anonymous | reply 28 | April 27, 2023 2:39 PM |
It looks like the closest city of any size is Bari, and not exactly nearby (more than an hour's drive.)
| by Anonymous | reply 29 | April 27, 2023 2:40 PM |
Bari has McDonald's! And IKEA!
| by Anonymous | reply 30 | April 27, 2023 2:43 PM |
I hope the Americans will open up an Olive Garden and a Pizza Hut soon, so they can show these goombas what REAL Italian food is!!!
| by Anonymous | reply 31 | April 27, 2023 2:43 PM |
R28, oh, those Italian ladies can gossip. After a week, they'll know every last thing about you....
| by Anonymous | reply 32 | April 27, 2023 2:47 PM |
Bari is the 9th largest city in Italy with 323,000 or so people.
Only three Italian cities have (almost) 1M or more: Naples 962K; Milan 1.2M; and Rome 2.6M.
| by Anonymous | reply 33 | April 27, 2023 2:51 PM |
I’d like to move there and remodel my purchase as a New England style cape house, with a white picket fence.
[italic]I’m here, bitches!
| by Anonymous | reply 34 | April 27, 2023 4:31 PM |
Living in an Italian village where it always feels like Sunday would be heaven! I’m not looking for excitement at this stage of my life. I would love to renovate an older home and work on my garden.
As long as there’s a bigger city or town at least an hour away I’ll be fine. I can travel all over Europe when I need a change of scenery.
| by Anonymous | reply 35 | April 27, 2023 5:43 PM |
[quote]Inside the Italian village being repopulated by Americans
The OP headline is misleading. It's not only Americans moving there. People of many different nationalities have moved there. There are Canadian, French and Norwegian just to name a few.
| by Anonymous | reply 36 | April 27, 2023 6:21 PM |
Bari is almost more rundown than some of these villages, Lungomare e Murat (seafront promenade) looks wonderful in the sunshine. It isn't always sunny.
| by Anonymous | reply 37 | April 27, 2023 6:33 PM |
[quote]r36 The OP headline is misleading… People of many different nationalities have moved there. There are Canadian, French and Norwegian just to name a few.
I don’t want to live next to them. Now what?
| by Anonymous | reply 38 | April 27, 2023 7:14 PM |
Avoiding the €1 houses that require extensive work and time, in many places money can go quite far.
Here's an house of 79 square meters (850 square feet) in the mostly medieval town of 1Magliani in Toscana (3600 population.) The price is €129,000 ($142,000). In small villages of similar character within a few kilometers but with populations in the 100s and 200s, you can get a place of similar quality but more than half again as large for under €100k.
The point is you don't have to buy a €1 house and spend a couple years and lots of money restoring it to live only to live in a tiny crossroads of a depopulated hamlet with few or no basic services. You can buy a nice house or apartment in a town big enough to have bars and restaurants, food shops, medical services, and neighbors whose names you don't in every case know for a cost that would buy nothing in the U.S.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 39 | April 28, 2023 8:46 PM |
Petralia Soprana, a town in Sicily, southeast of Palermo, that offers €5,000 to move there.
With links to similar schemes elsewhere in Italy and in Spain.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 41 | May 4, 2023 5:34 PM |
Can the gays take over one? All the essentials like a bathhouse and sex shop.
| by Anonymous | reply 42 | May 4, 2023 5:47 PM |
I want to move there. Spend my time gardening, and running my own business
| by Anonymous | reply 43 | May 4, 2023 6:01 PM |
Then go make one, r27.
That’s the point of getting people to move there is to bring back those cultural and civic things.
Get some local musicians together on a Thursday evening and have them play some tunes. Start a local theater group and act out a scene from Dante’s “Divine Comedy” in the town square on a Saturday afternoon when people are out wandering.
Just silly, community oriented things like that would be a start. Who knows? Maybe the music would be so horrible that the word gets out and tourists come to gawk at your train wreck!
| by Anonymous | reply 44 | May 4, 2023 6:05 PM |
It would get tiresome, though, with all the locals hitting you up to sponsor them for visas, and wanting contacts in America for when they escape.
| by Anonymous | reply 45 | May 5, 2023 4:05 PM |
[quote]It would get tiresome, though, with all the locals hitting you up to sponsor them for visas, and wanting contacts in America for when they escape.
Haha. A sentiment/myth to which Americans cling so tightly.
| by Anonymous | reply 46 | May 5, 2023 4:14 PM |
The US is so fucked up right now. Americans are gross, fat and stupid. I stay to care for family but I completely understand the attraction of leaving. The average American is pure trash.
| by Anonymous | reply 47 | May 5, 2023 4:21 PM |
