Now that the fake casting outrage is over, I’m thinking what to make of this movie. As a Cleopatra expert, I feel like it would have been better if made into a miniseries.
It would be more interesting for them to do Cleopatra’s last year with Mark Antony. They lost the Battle of Actium. Mark Antony is depressed and Cleopatra is doing everything she can to stop Octavian from invading Egypt.
I don’t know how they’re going to fit everything into 3 hours and it be good. And I’m also worried they’ll make it a love story instead of going for politics, which is more interesting.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 240 | March 30, 2023 4:54 AM |
Will they get any actual Egyptian actors to play Egyptians in the film? I'm looking at you Gods of Egypt.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 1 | November 24, 2021 1:28 AM |
The other thing is will they reject the Hollywood Cleopatra and go for the historically accurate Cleopatra?
Cleopatra would have resembled more of a John William Godward painting over looking like Elizabeth Taylor’s Nefertiti fashions.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 2 | November 24, 2021 1:28 AM |
R1 Cleopatra’s council was predominantly Greek so it’ll be mostly white people. She did have a few Egyptians in her council.
| by Anonymous | reply 3 | November 24, 2021 1:31 AM |
Brad Pitt for Marc Anthony so we can see Angelina's head explode.
| by Anonymous | reply 4 | November 24, 2021 1:38 AM |
Is Brenton Thwaites Egyptian?
| by Anonymous | reply 5 | November 24, 2021 1:39 AM |
Why does this woman keep getting cast in all these big movies?
Who in the fuck is she sleeping with??
| by Anonymous | reply 6 | November 24, 2021 1:39 AM |
Shouldn't they have cast a woman of color?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 7 | November 24, 2021 1:40 AM |
R4 I read the entire e-mail exchange between Pascal, Rudin, and Angelina. I read the script notes and all.
From the notes, it sounded like it was going to a 2000’s era historical bore like “Alexander” and “Gladiator” (yes I think that movie is boring!”).
| by Anonymous | reply 8 | November 24, 2021 1:50 AM |
R6 She turned high profile after Wonder Woman and as a part of Marvel Universe. Now, she's in high demand by film studios. A simple logic to follow but I understand it's hard for a simpleton like you.
| by Anonymous | reply 9 | November 24, 2021 2:03 AM |
Doesn't hurt that she's Jewish either, R9.
| by Anonymous | reply 10 | November 24, 2021 2:04 AM |
Mark Antony was 53 when he died; is there a European actor in the age range who could play the role?
My first thought was Raoul Bova, who is 50.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 11 | November 24, 2021 2:22 AM |
This is terrible. They should’ve cast an Egyptian woman. Gal sucks.
| by Anonymous | reply 12 | November 24, 2021 2:32 AM |
[quote] They should’ve cast an Egyptian woman
They should’ve cast a handicapable, trans, non-binary Egyptian woman of color.
| by Anonymous | reply 13 | November 24, 2021 2:35 AM |
R12 Cleopatra wasn’t blood Egyptian. She was Greek.
| by Anonymous | reply 14 | November 24, 2021 2:37 AM |
The casting of non-Greeks is problematic, Hollywood formulaic and non-Ptolemaic.
| by Anonymous | reply 15 | November 24, 2021 2:39 AM |
R11 Edgar Ramirez resembles Mark Antony’s statue in my opinion.
I think Daniel Craig should be Julius Caesar.
| by Anonymous | reply 16 | November 24, 2021 2:40 AM |
Mark Antony’s face reconstructed.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 17 | November 24, 2021 2:41 AM |
I think the state looks like Ramirez
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 18 | November 24, 2021 2:42 AM |
Cleopatra was greek and fugly, I don't know why twitter has gone in the "cleopatra was black!" Prespective when Greeks aren't black, she was cousin to blonde haired alexander the great for fucks sake. Anyway gal is trash, can't act, and is a piece of shit zionist xenophobe.
| by Anonymous | reply 19 | November 24, 2021 2:42 AM |
[quote] I think the state looks like Ramirez
Is he a square like Wyoming?
| by Anonymous | reply 20 | November 24, 2021 2:44 AM |
R14
Than they should start making films on real Egyptian women like Nefertiti and Hatshepsut.
White people are obsessed with Cleopatra for this very reason.
| by Anonymous | reply 21 | November 24, 2021 2:49 AM |
I can’t stand this annoying Jewess.
| by Anonymous | reply 22 | November 24, 2021 2:54 AM |
Gal Gadot cannot act unfortunately.
| by Anonymous | reply 23 | November 24, 2021 2:57 AM |
R21 I think Cleopatra is the only figure besides the Virgin Mary to transcend racial boundaries in that she’s been depicted in many forms and has been adapted by whatever group is portraying her.
I would love to see a movie about Hatshepsut.
Nefertiti was a nutjob.
| by Anonymous | reply 24 | November 24, 2021 2:57 AM |
I thought this movie was meant to be Gaga’s reunion movie with bradley cooper?
| by Anonymous | reply 25 | November 24, 2021 2:57 AM |
I'm a Cleopatra "expert," too. Well, I'm actually a historian specializing in late-Ptolemaic Egypt, late-Republic/early-Empire Rome, and the political role and impact in religious syncretism in the era.
As an historian, I won't be watching this no matter how long it is or how "complete" the script is.
As an outraged lover of camp and schlock disguised as "famous loves between the African queen desperate to save her county and Europeans who sought to control her," I wouldn't miss this pile of shit (that won't be touched by any self-respecting scarab beetle).
| by Anonymous | reply 26 | November 24, 2021 3:13 AM |
I would love to see Arsinoe on screen.
Arsinoe was Cleopatra’s younger sister. Their oldest sister Berenice had overthrown their father for a few years and he fled to Rome and returned and had her beheaded when Cleopatra was 13.
According to historians, Arsinoe followed Cleopatra into exile in Syria when she was overthrown by her brothers council.
But when Cleopatra came back to Alexandria through Caesar, there must have been a fallout because when Caesar and Cleopatra went to war with Ptolemy, Arsinoe escaped the palace with her tutor Ganymedes and joined Ptolemy’s army. Ptolemy was held captive by Caesar and Arsinoe fought in his place.
She was declared Queen for a while but after battling, the Egyptians basically traded her in for Ptolemy. Ptolemy ended up drowning during the battle and Arsinoe was brought to Rome in chains with Caesar.
She was paraded in chains through the streets. Romans were horrified that Caesar had brought back a 17 year old Egyptian Princess and put her in chains so he sent her to exile in Greece.
While she was in exile, she still claimed she was the Queen of Egypt and was plotting a return. After Caesar died and Cleopatra met Mark Antony, she promised to find his war if he got rid of Arsinoe.
So Mark Antony had Arsinoe dragged out of her temple in Greece and strangled.
One of the claims of Cleopatra being black comes from the remains of a woman found in the same area and whoever found her claim it’s Arsinoe even though there’s no evidence whatsoever it’s her bones.
| by Anonymous | reply 28 | November 24, 2021 3:16 AM |
Er, Every Pharoah was a nutter. Cleopatra thought herself a direct descendant of isis. Which is odd since she wasn't even egyptian.
| by Anonymous | reply 29 | November 24, 2021 3:34 AM |
[quote] Which is odd since she wasn't even egyptian.
Yes, mythical figures are by necessity pinned down to the land where they're venerated.
| by Anonymous | reply 30 | November 24, 2021 3:39 AM |
[quote] Who in the fuck is she sleeping with??
With whom is she sleeping?
| by Anonymous | reply 31 | November 24, 2021 3:44 AM |
[bold]Gal Gadot's Cleopatra Movie Script Is Complete[/bold]
This thread is merely the prequel to the inevitable:
[bold]Gal Gadot's Cleopatra's Collapse Is Complete[/bold]
| by Anonymous | reply 32 | November 24, 2021 3:59 AM |
[quote] Than they should start making films on real Egyptian women like Nefertiti and Hatshepsut. White people are obsessed with Cleopatra for this very reason.
What’s the reason?
| by Anonymous | reply 33 | November 24, 2021 4:04 AM |
Thwaites is perfect in Egyptian movies.
| by Anonymous | reply 34 | November 24, 2021 4:04 AM |
Angelina Jolie was supposed to have starred in a Cleopatra movie a number of years ago but ultimately nothing came of it. Hollywood insists on casting beautiful women to play the part of Cleo who was no dollface.
| by Anonymous | reply 35 | November 24, 2021 4:05 AM |
[quote] Angelina Jolie was supposed to have starred in a Cleopatra movie a number of years ago but ultimately nothing came of it.
“Was supposed to have starred,” or “was supposed to star?”
| by Anonymous | reply 36 | November 24, 2021 4:09 AM |
R29 Lol it wasn’t like the Elizabeth Taylor movie.
The Ptolemies were possibly atheists. Religion was a form of controlling the peace, that’s why they mixed Greek and Egyptian religion together in Alexandria. There were also Jews and there’s records of Cleopatra giving Jewish temples tax exemptions during a famine.
Cleopatra claiming to be Isis was following tradition. Her father was Dionysus and I think it was Arsinoe II who was Isis as well (her great something grandmother).
The Ptolemies most likely knew it was all bullshit from the books I’ve read.
| by Anonymous | reply 37 | November 24, 2021 4:12 AM |
[quote] White people are obsessed with Cleopatra …
English people had their interest in Cleopatra whetted by Shakespeare and his rather unsatisfactory play 500 years ago.
And that was compounded 400 years later with George Bernard Shaw's very unsatisfactory play.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 38 | November 24, 2021 4:16 AM |
R35 Nothing came of it because what happened was the producers were focused on the Steve Jobs movie and Angelina was trying to steal away the best directors for Cleopatra. They wanted David Fincher to direct the Jobs movie and Angelina was setting up meetings with him for Cleopatra. Scorsese too. And the script for Cleopatra was still a mess.
They ended up falling out and focusing on the Jobs movie, which fell apart and tanked.
| by Anonymous | reply 39 | November 24, 2021 4:18 AM |
[quote] the Steve Jobs movie
Kutcher or Fassbender?
| by Anonymous | reply 40 | November 24, 2021 4:20 AM |
Here’s some script notes a script doctor sent Amy Pascal from the Angelina Jolie movie:
Page 1.
· Ptolemy killing Pompey is the incident that sends Cleopatra into motion. She seizes the opportunity to get into the palace and to Caesar. And, she should make Caesar aware of this. He¹s part of her plan.
· Cleopatra knows she has serious enemies in Egypt and part of her reasoning for going to Rome is to solidify her position. When she returns, rather than managing a plague, she must immediately deal with the threat to her power in a series of strategic assassinations.
· Cleopatra and Octavian need to be equally matched as they vie for their positions with Caesar. Octavian must recognize her as a dangerous adversary and not be so dismissive.
· Going to Fulvia should be Cleopatra¹s idea. After Caesar¹s death, Cleopatra needs to figure out how to get what she wants from Marc Antony, who is now her new boss. She appreciates Fulvia¹s loyalty, brains and ambition. Together, they should engineer the Tarses meeting and make it appear to be Marc Antony¹s idea.
· Cleopatra should suggest that Marc Antony marry Octavia in a move to protect them from Octavian. But, although it is her idea, she is heartbroken nonetheless. It¹s her sacrifice for the greater good, which is Egypt.
· Because this is a love story, Marc Antony should return to Cleopatra finding it impossible to be away from her. After they marry, they both know they¹re doomed.
· At Actium, Marc Antony needs to force her to leave for her own safety. She doesn¹t want to leave but he sends her, knowing it¹s unlikely they will ever see each other again.
· Turn up the boil at the end of the movie. Punctuate how badly Octavian desires her total humiliation and underscore the triumph of her suicide and the brandishing of her myth, and that of ancient Egypt, for all time.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 41 | November 24, 2021 4:21 AM |
Cleopatra exists in our own imagination.
The Shakespeare version, the Shaw version, the Mankiewicz version and even poor Vivien's version failed to reach our imagined expectations.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 42 | November 24, 2021 4:22 AM |
This is an outline of the movie Amy Pascal sent to herself as notes
CLEOPATRA OPENING: PAGE 1-20 HER DEATH BED AND MAIDENS HISTORY OF ALEXANDRIA THE CARPET TRICK LITTLE SCENE WITH CAESER A BATH AND A HAIRCUT WALKING TO THE BOAT HEBNEY PTOLMEY COMES TOO SEASICK
miss the description on bottem of page 3...about HER PLACE IN HISTORY
do we miss the silk merchant?
i like the little scene between her and caeser
the only problem with hebney is that we may be on his side not hers...movie history tells us to side with the resistance not the aristocracy we need to think about this
ROME: PAGE 20-90 LITTER CHAIR THROUGH AND A HISTORY LESSON ARRIVAL AT PALACE AND MEET THE WIFE CAESERS PARTY FOR THE QUEEN CAESERS VISIT STICKING UP FOR ARSINOE IV CLEO STORMS THE SENATE CLEO MEETS ANTHONY CLEO GOES TO BRUTUS VILLA SWIMMING IN THE TIBER CAESER SAYS GOOD BYE ANTONY SAYS NO VOTE AND TELLS CLEO CLEO VISITS CICERO IN BATHHOUSE ANTONY AND CLEO AT THE VILLA CLEO TEACHES PTOLMEY A LESSON CAESER RETURNS AND IS VICTORIOUS CAESARS EXCESS CAESAR IS MURDERED CLEO LEAVES SHIP AND WATCHES WILL BE READ CLEO COMFORTS CAESARIAN ON WAY HOME
NOT SURE I BELIEVE HER SNEAKING BACK INTO ROME FOR THE FUNERAL
EVERYONE CHOSES SIDES PAGE 90-110 CLEO RETURNS TO THE PLAGUE AND DRY NILE APOLLODORUS TELLS US ABOUT TRIUMVARITE CICERO IS DE ARMED APOLLORDORUS TELLS OF PTOLEMY AND IS KILLED CLEOPATRA GOES TO SEE CASSIUS CAESARIAN DOESNT REALLY LIKE CROWNS HEBENY SENDS A GIFT TO HER NO MORE PLAGUE APOLLODORUS TELLS US THE EAST AND WEST ARE DIVIDED CLEO VISITS OCTAVIAN CLEO VISITS FULVIA AND REALISES SHE IS NUTS FULVIa CONVINCES ATHOTHY
WE DONT WANT TO BE ON HEBNEYS SIDE WE WANT TO WANT TO BE ON HER SIDE NOT SURE I UNDERSTAND WHY SHE GOES TO SEE OCTAVIAN NOT SURE WE NEED THE FULVIA SCENE WE GET THE IDEA AND CAN CUT STRAIGHT TO CLEO THERE BUT ITS NOT PLAYING LIKE THE MANIPULATION AND CHESS GAME IT SHOULD YET
ANTONY AND CLEOPATRA: 110-165 CLEOS MOCK SURPRISE DINNER AND SEX THE APPROACH EGYPT OCTAVIAN GETS NEWS OF THE ALLIANCE DINNER AND SEX A BATH AND A FOOTRUB ARISONE IS KILLED FULVIA ONTHE SENATE STEPS YOU DONT EVEN KNOW ME OCTAVIAN IN ROME CAESARIAN IS ATTACKED OCTAVIAN THREATENS ANTONY THE GO TO GIZA TO BE SAFE CLEO MENTIONS OCTAVIA ANTONY TELLS OCTAVIAN OF THE MARRIAGE EGYPT BORDERS ARE TESTED ANTONY LOSES BATTLE CLEO VOWS TO HELP HIM BEAT OCTAVIAN CLEO ARRIVES IN ANTICOCH THEY MARRY OARTHIA FALLS BUT HE IS A WINNER IN EGYPT OCTAVIAN ENRAGED AND DECLAIRES WAR CLEO ARRIVES AND THE BATTLE OF ACTIUM WADGES THEY BOTH HEAD TO EGYPT ANTONY IS TOLD OF HER DEATH
HE KILLS HIMSELF SHE MEETS WITH OCTAVIAN RETURNS TO HER PALACE TALKS WITH CAESARIAN HER DEATH
WE CANT KEEP TALKING ABOUT HOW STUPID ANTONY IS I WISH WE COULD PUT BACK THE HANKERSCHIEF HERE DID ARISONE ALWAYS GET KILLED SO CLOSE TO THEM DISCUSSING HER DO WE NEED THE FULVIA SCENE DOES SHE LOVE ANTONY SHE NEEDS TO
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 43 | November 24, 2021 4:22 AM |
Oh sorry guys that didn’t copy and paste the best way! Lol
R40 Fassbender
| by Anonymous | reply 44 | November 24, 2021 4:23 AM |
[quote] Amy Pascal
and her husband are poison.
| by Anonymous | reply 45 | November 24, 2021 4:29 AM |
I’m digging but I couldn’t find other emails about the Angelina movie.
I remember some of the writing being really bad. And they were praising it.
I know there was this scene where a peasant with the plague kissed Cleopatra’s hand or something and it made her sick and she spent days fighting the plague in bed and then she summons him back to kiss him on the lips and poison him or something. I don’t know. It was some bullshit that I could see being in an Angelina Jolie movie.
And also the shaved head. I guess Angelina wanted to be bald in the movie cause Egyptians shaved their head. But like 2,000 years before Cleopatra lived lol.
| by Anonymous | reply 46 | November 24, 2021 4:34 AM |
That cleopatra movie would have been a huge disaster, angelina only wanted that part over vanity, hearing how beautiful she is for 2 hours sounds like such a bore.
| by Anonymous | reply 47 | November 24, 2021 5:10 AM |
[quote] ngelina only wanted that part over vanity
Vanity probably would've turned down the part given that Cleopatra was a nasty girl, aka a non-Christian.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 48 | November 24, 2021 5:12 AM |
Guys. Guys. Why are you all talking about Angelina? Focus on me. Yes?
| by Anonymous | reply 49 | November 24, 2021 5:19 AM |
Gal proved it Wonder Woman 1984 that she can’t fucking act.
| by Anonymous | reply 50 | November 24, 2021 5:28 AM |
[quote]Shouldn't they have cast a woman of color?
Shouldn't they have cast a woman who can act?
| by Anonymous | reply 51 | November 24, 2021 5:32 AM |
R50 She proved it in every movie she's in she can't act. And patty is a hack.
| by Anonymous | reply 52 | November 24, 2021 5:34 AM |
R51 R52 Gal as Cleopatra simply has to act imperious and look beautiful. Not much else is required. Although she'll probably throw in a few athletic stunts a la Wonder Woman.
| by Anonymous | reply 53 | November 24, 2021 5:38 AM |
R53 So basically a remake of the Timothy Dalton movie.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 55 | November 24, 2021 5:54 AM |
I honestly would like to have seen Angie as Cleo with a strong director and stuff lid script.
The British interest in Cleo predates Shakespeare. Chaucer write about her.
| by Anonymous | reply 56 | November 24, 2021 6:38 AM |
My favorite dramatization of the Cleopatra- Anthony story is actually in the second season of HBO's Rome. I have no idea how historically accurate it is, but it plays like a fever dream.
| by Anonymous | reply 58 | November 24, 2021 7:04 AM |
I hope Gal will do a lot of martial arts and fling venomous asps at her attackers.
| by Anonymous | reply 59 | November 24, 2021 7:46 AM |
r50 this phoned in movie she's in now with the rock and the beady-eyed one is a great example of post-Covid hollywood dreck...a product created by a computer program and marketed for as much global appeal as possible
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 60 | November 24, 2021 6:36 PM |
I think I'll avoid any film with her now. Ive seen her in WW and Red Notice and that's enough.
| by Anonymous | reply 61 | November 24, 2021 7:28 PM |
[quote]Than they should start
Oh, dear.
| by Anonymous | reply 62 | November 24, 2021 11:46 PM |
R58 I agree with you. The actress was physically right for the role and had great energy and you got a sense of the decadence, especially toward the end, holed up in the palace with Marc Antony in this hazy fog of drugs, sex, food, luxury, power, and obsessive love.
| by Anonymous | reply 63 | November 25, 2021 7:05 AM |
[quote] This is terrible. They should’ve cast an Egyptian woman. Gal sucks.
Perhaps when you graduate high school you'll come to understand that big movies need star names to sell tickets so they can make their investment back.
| by Anonymous | reply 64 | November 25, 2021 7:13 AM |
Cleo wasn't Egyptian. Why do people not get this and keep harping on getting an Eqyptian actress?
| by Anonymous | reply 65 | November 25, 2021 7:55 AM |
There is a French guy who made a mock documentary of the Julius Caesar/Cleopatra/Mark Anthony story. The actors pose as the characters sitting down for an interview.
Very entertaining and the acting is pretty good.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 66 | November 25, 2021 10:01 AM |
What's that old saying? History repeats itself?
| by Anonymous | reply 68 | December 9, 2021 12:42 PM |
“History never repeats itself, but it does often rhyme.” - Mark Twain
| by Anonymous | reply 69 | December 9, 2021 8:17 PM |
R65
Because people want a movie with real Egyptian leads.
| by Anonymous | reply 70 | December 9, 2021 8:21 PM |
Yeah, white people are fascinated by Cleopatra, and why not? She was not only historically remarkable, as the Last Pharoah, but she had the most interesting sex life of any female monarch of note!
I mean, compare her to most of the other ruling queens of history - most of whom dutifully married someone correct and lived lives of private unhappiness, the only other monarch who can compare is Mary Queen of Scots, who had three husbands in rapid succession and who had one of them murdered right in front of her. But Cleopatra fucked the biggest celebrities of the day and married her brother as well, which makes her the Drama Queen Of All Time!
| by Anonymous | reply 71 | December 9, 2021 8:22 PM |
They only like her because she’s white. There are more interesting Egyptian queens who never get shine like Cleopotra.
| by Anonymous | reply 72 | December 9, 2021 8:25 PM |
Looks even trashier than the remake.
| by Anonymous | reply 73 | December 9, 2021 11:22 PM |
Still moving ahead. Most of the time, Cleopatra movies are announced and then fall through.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 74 | January 6, 2022 2:36 AM |
Gal isn't attracting shit. Wonder Woman would have made the same amount of money with any actress in the title role. Actors don't sell these movies.
| by Anonymous | reply 75 | January 6, 2022 2:42 AM |
I'm a Cleopatra fan and I know this film is going to be SHIT. Two big reasons why: 1: Cleo's story doesn't neatly fit into the constraints of a standard film. It's broad and complex. Two films might work, but that's unfeasible. 2: Second big problem is the very high level of ignorance in the marketplace about who she actually was, what she looked like and why she was a big deal. The extreme end of this is the notion is the increasingly widespread delusion she was black, and more widely, the notion she was ethnically Egyptian. As stated above, she was a Greek. Contemporary images makes this clear. The one Roman painting from her lifetime portrays her as fair skinned and red haired. Her fundamentally Greek identity isn't palatable to a mass audience, which wants to see her portrayed as not only an ethnic Egyptian, but also in the style of an Egyptian from thousands of years prior to her birth!
| by Anonymous | reply 76 | January 6, 2022 2:50 AM |
Grab that coin, hunny! Hollywood "It Girls" are a dime a dozen and just when you take your eyes off the prize, there's a new girl snatching the spotlight!
| by Anonymous | reply 77 | January 6, 2022 3:16 AM |
People don't know Cleo was not an indigenous Egyptian, because most basic dumb-fucks get their knowledge of the past not from scholars, but from popular media. Like for example, People magazine (which although a popular culture title, is meant to rigorously fact check) recently matter-of-factly stated Cleo was "a woman of color". There is no evidence of this whatsoever. There is a mountain of clear evidence she was Macedonian Greek. This fact was never controversial until about 50 years ago, when feelings began to become more important than fact.
| by Anonymous | reply 78 | January 6, 2022 3:24 AM |
You just KNOW this version will be woke as [bold]fuck[/bold].
| by Anonymous | reply 79 | January 6, 2022 3:32 AM |
" Her fundamentally Greek identity isn't palatable to a mass audience, which wants to see her portrayed as not only an ethnic Egyptian, but also in the style of an Egyptian from thousands of years prior to her birth"
Her fundamentally Greek identity is also a problem for the scriptwriters. I mean she was absolute monarch of Egypt because 200 years earlier her family had conquered the place and ousted the native pharoahs who'd ruled for 5,000 years... and the story is about her trying to keep the Caesars from doing exactly what the Ptolmies had done. Stick to the truth and there's no gut feeling of her fundamental right to rule, particularly if you admit that her ancestors had practiced incest to keep Egyptian DNA out of their bloodline.
So I'd bet real money that the writers invent an Egyptian mother for her, and the screen Cleopatra talks about her "Egyptian and/or African blood". Which is fair enough, it's not known who her mother was, it's possible her mother wasn't actually her father's sister.
| by Anonymous | reply 80 | January 6, 2022 3:39 AM |
It's fair enough they'd do that from a commercial point of view. It's not highly credible from a historical point of view given the cultural traditions of her family and the likely reality that Cleo was a pale redhead. If there was any blood in her line that wasn't from direct family members, there were tens of thousands of high status Greeks in Alexandria who would have made more likely candidates for genetic interlopers.
| by Anonymous | reply 81 | January 6, 2022 3:48 AM |
I like Faye Dunaway's version the best.
"TINA! BRING ME THE ASP!"
| by Anonymous | reply 82 | January 6, 2022 3:51 AM |
The ancient sources state that Cleo was the first in her family line to speak Egyptian, rather than only Greek. As well as showing the separatist tendencies of her family, who were in Egypt for centuries, that clearly implies both her parents were purely Greek speakers.
| by Anonymous | reply 83 | January 6, 2022 3:56 AM |
Maybe Spielberg will direct and the whole thing will be in Spanish without subtitles.
| by Anonymous | reply 84 | January 6, 2022 3:59 AM |
I'm just here to say that some of you people have vast and serious knowledge.
| by Anonymous | reply 85 | January 6, 2022 4:10 AM |
[quote]They only like her because she’s white. There are more interesting Egyptian queens who never get shine like Cleopotra.
Cleopatra had tons of drama in her life and was at a crucial period of history. Her story is epic.
| by Anonymous | reply 86 | January 6, 2022 4:11 AM |
Cleopatra is the most famous Egyptian queen because her story intersected with that of Caesar, Marc Anthony and Octavian. She survives in detail in the historical record and the cultural imagination of the western world because of this. Not "because she was white". The indigenous Egyptian dynasties predated Rome and therefore don't loom large in the western consciousness. At least not until the age of western archeological discovery in Egypt, when figures like King Tut emerged.
| by Anonymous | reply 87 | January 6, 2022 4:18 AM |
R31, "Who in the fuck is she sleeping with?? 'With whom is she sleeping?'"
Or would it be "With whom in the fuck is she sleeping?"
| by Anonymous | reply 88 | January 6, 2022 4:31 AM |
I suspect there will be a lot of contemporary messaging in this movie, with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer, in favor of any kind of historical accuracy regarding the sociopolitical culture of the actual ancient world.
| by Anonymous | reply 89 | January 6, 2022 4:53 AM |
Yes absolutely. You'll have the Greek presence in Alexandria minimised in favour of the Egyptian, and the Romans will be proxies for the age of modern imperialism and racism. Contemporary racial politics will be imposed, with the Romans' whiteness highlighted. You'll have Roman characters mouthing racist attitudes against the older and "more sophisticated" Egyptian culture that simply didn't exist then. The Romans were not racist in the way we understand Racism now. They did not have a concept of whiteness and non whiteness. It'll all be handled with all the subtlety of an axe wound.
| by Anonymous | reply 90 | January 6, 2022 5:00 AM |
r90 that's exactly what I was thinking. Everything is political now.
| by Anonymous | reply 91 | January 6, 2022 5:02 AM |
"The Romans were not racist in the way we understand Racism now. They did not have a concept of whiteness and non whiteness."
There was no real correlation between race and social status in the Roman world, slaves could be of any race, as could the poor. Of course nationality mattered, but in Rome, wealth mattered more than nationality. If you were a super-rich Egyptian or Jewish or Gaulish aristocrat, you were accepted into Roman high society, although you weren't accepted as a Roman. Well, until fairly late in the Empire's history anyway, when Rome had assimilated most of Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East. It wasn't true in Cleopatra's time but later, a Roman official from anywhere was still a Roman official.
| by Anonymous | reply 92 | January 6, 2022 5:09 AM |
This movie is not going to happen. It never happens. There is no audience for this as a theatrical feature. Just wait for a netflix, amazon hulu or peacock to swoop in and pay for it to be a mini-series.
| by Anonymous | reply 93 | January 6, 2022 5:31 AM |
R79 There’s a lot of historical elements though that can make it “woke as fuck” but the story really is.
There’s a lot of really powerful and ruthless women.
There’s the rivalry with her sister Arsinoe who wanted to be Queen.
Mark Antony’s wife Fulvia was the leader of a Roman mafia and pretty much managed Mark Antony’s political career. Then she fought against Octavian.
The biggest feminist theme was that Cleopatra didn’t die with Mark Antony, she died with the most trusted women in her life.
And finally, out of all her children, it was her daughter Cleopatra Selene who became Queen. The boys died.
So if they’re smart, they’ll tie all of that in. Instead of making it just a love story. Cleopatra could have intentionally made Mark Antony kill himself to make a deal with Octavian.
| by Anonymous | reply 94 | January 6, 2022 5:32 AM |
R93 I honestly prefer a mini series. If they’re going to tell the whole story from Caesar to her death, it should be a miniseries.
I think an interesting movie would be the last year of Cleopatra and Mark Antony. It would start with Cleopatra arriving back in Egypt after losing the Battle of Actium and the year they spent before they died.
Mark Antony fell into a depression while Cleopatra did everything she could to try and save herself.
People think they lost and the next day, they killer themselves or something. It was a year. And they died about 10-12 days apart from each other. Cleopatra kind of went through hell before she finally killed herself.
Her original plan was to set her mausoleum on fire and burn down with all of Egypt’s treasures she had stashed in there. Then when that failed, she tried to stab herself. Then she was put on house arrest and tried to starve herself and had caught an infection from beating herself up. Her death wasn’t some sexy scene where the snake bit her. She finally ended up poisoning herself.
It would be an interesting movie than a 2 hour rushed through timeline of her story.
| by Anonymous | reply 95 | January 6, 2022 5:41 AM |
R78 What I’ve also learned is historians refuse to connect the dots because they stick to the facts.
There’s this bullshit going on that she may have been part Egyptian and that her mother was a concubine.
There’s absolutely no evidence whatsoever to suggest this. It’s a theory created by historians.
Her mother was most likely Cleopatra V. There is no historical documentation as evidence. But Cleopatra V was her father’s wife who disappeared the year Cleopatra was born. It’s pretty obvious she died at childbirth to me.
But they won’t connect those dots. They come up with all sorts of other theories.
If Cleopatra was a bastard, the Romans would have pointed that out. Her father Auletes has the same issue but his mother was most likely his fathers wife but they were divorced. He was a bastard the same way Queen Elizabeth I was a bastard.
| by Anonymous | reply 96 | January 6, 2022 5:47 AM |
R86 Agreed. She’s one of the first documented women to fight a major war. The Battle of Actium.
And I believe her role was severely downplayed because she had been going to war since her battle with her brother. When she went into exile in Syria, she raised an army.
There was also the Battle of Alexandria. She’s not mentioned at all but she was with Caesar (because he knocked her up during that time period) the whole time. He was in a foreign country, she knew Egypt. There’s no doubt in my mind she helped him. He barley mentioned her in his book about it.
| by Anonymous | reply 97 | January 6, 2022 5:58 AM |
I think she's beautiful but she is a horrible actress and I can't stand her shit eating grin. It's fucking annoying as fuck.
| by Anonymous | reply 98 | January 6, 2022 6:00 AM |
I recommend Stacy Schiff’s book.
One thing I hope they get right is Caesar most likely seduced Cleopatra.
He was an older man who fucked everything. He was the Queen of Bithynia!
Cleopatra was a 20 year-old virgin who was in fear of her life when she met him.
The idea that she seduced him doesn’t add up.
| by Anonymous | reply 99 | January 6, 2022 6:01 AM |
The real Cleo was not classically beautiful, so Gal is not historically accurate casting. That's another lie that the public will demand from film along with a Nefertit headdress and a black bob hairdo. They'll want Cleo with model good looks and extreme sexuality.
| by Anonymous | reply 100 | January 6, 2022 6:04 AM |
Another movie I will be avoiding. The woman cannot act to save her life. Wonder Woman 2 was a piece of shit.
| by Anonymous | reply 101 | January 6, 2022 6:05 AM |
Sorry I’m obsessed. One more.
I would hope they would depict Rome in a different way.
Cicero was hilarious. I’ve read several books about Cleopatra and he’s always a favorite.
He hated her because when she first came to Rome, she said she would bring him books he wanted from the Library of Alexandria.
And then on her second visit to Rome, she forgot to bring them. After that, he said in a letter that he detested her and that she was arrogant. Lol.
Also, the whole story of Herod the Great. Mark Antony wanted to fuck Herod’s brother-in-law Aristobulus who apparently was a hot twink and Herod grew jealous so his mother-in-law tried to save him. She contacted Cleopatra who set up a fleet for them and they were going to hide in coffins and head to Egypt. Herod found out and axed the plans. He had Aristobulus drowned.
| by Anonymous | reply 102 | January 6, 2022 6:09 AM |
R100 Right.
Cleopatra to the public is Angelina Jolie dressed like Nefertiti with the Dracula accent she used in “Alexander”.
| by Anonymous | reply 103 | January 6, 2022 6:10 AM |
The whole film should be scrapped with the budget directed towards an Elagabalus feature. He was the killer twink from hell - he was definitely voraciously homosexual with possible trans tendencies. He had the empire scoured for men with freakishly giant penises who'd be imported to service him. He turned the palace into a brothel and worked as a prostitute.
| by Anonymous | reply 105 | January 6, 2022 6:15 AM |
R105 Or Nero and Sporus.
I always felt bad for Sporus.
| by Anonymous | reply 106 | January 6, 2022 6:21 AM |
Of course the biggest problem with this film is the fact they hired the truly awful Gal Gadot to star in it.
She's a terrible actresss.
| by Anonymous | reply 107 | January 6, 2022 6:51 AM |
"Cleopatra was a 20 year-old virgin who was in fear of her life when she met him. (Julius Caesar)"
A virgin? She'd been married twice by then! To two of her brothers!
Yes, she had been married to her younger brothers Ptolmey XIII and Ptolmey XIV for three years each, neither marriage had produced children. The boys were 14 or 15 when they died, so it's possible the marriages had been consummated, a horrible thought but that's how the Egyptian elite did things.
| by Anonymous | reply 108 | January 6, 2022 6:52 AM |
R108 Cleopatra married Ptolmey XIV as part of the deal with Caesar after the Alexandria War.
Historians say she married Ptolmey XIII but they also state because of the turmoil within the rulership, they never got around to getting married.
When Auletes died, he left them as co-rulers in his will so they both had claim to the throne.
Cleopatra had no interest in them. When she was took over after her father died, she cut Ptolemy XIII out and he wasn’t even acknowledged in official documents. When his guardians took over and sent her into exile, they removed her from official documents.
After Caesar was assassinated, one of the first things she did was kill Ptolemy XIV because she no longer had to hold up the deal she made with him.
There was no tradition they had to consummate their marriage. Some of the incestuous Ptolemaic marriages produced no children.
It wasn’t about breeding incestuous children, it was about power. There was no hierarchy in the family succession.
All historians state she was most likely a virgin.
| by Anonymous | reply 109 | January 6, 2022 7:59 AM |
Notice how in the video above, the narrator says she favors the view Cleopatra had dark hair and eyes, despite there being exactly zero contemporary depictions of her looking like this. She then shows four ancient paintings and a cameo all showing Cleo with red hair, and presents a reconstruction of her with red hair almost regretfully. This is how modern politics makes people stupid.
| by Anonymous | reply 110 | January 6, 2022 8:02 AM |
Ptolemaic marriages were more about alliances within the family. They required two rulers.
Like when Cleopatra’s father was exiled to Rome, his eldest daughter Berenice took the throne and she was co-ruler with her stepmother until she poisoned her.
Cleopatra was co-ruler with her father a year before he died. She made Ceasarion co-ruler after she killed her last brother.
So the brother-sister marriages are kind of exaggerated. There were a few brother and sister marriages that produced children but it was a lot of cousins too. And there were other types of incest marriages like uncle and niece but they didn’t have kids. It was just about being co-rulers.
| by Anonymous | reply 111 | January 6, 2022 8:09 AM |
And I think Cleopatra was most likely beautiful.
The whole idea she was ugly came from the BBC who had found her coins.
That famous ugly coin is actually her father. What happened was when he died and she transitioned over, all the statues that were being built of him and coins and such, she quickly had them transformed into her. So the coin is basically his face with her hair.
Because in her later coins, she looks normal.
| by Anonymous | reply 112 | January 6, 2022 8:29 AM |
R73 which remake? 1934 or1963?
| by Anonymous | reply 113 | January 6, 2022 10:26 AM |
Gal has proven herself to be a dodo and yet another tone deaf narcissist. Particularly her participation in that pathetically inappropriate post-COVID 19 Instagram singing circa April 2020. Then that colossal dud WW1984 fell on the world like a stale turd. Her stardom will never again reach its pre-COVID level.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 114 | January 6, 2022 11:09 AM |
[quote]Particularly her participation in that pathetically inappropriate post-COVID 19 Instagram singing circa April 2020..
What's the story?
| by Anonymous | reply 115 | January 6, 2022 11:18 AM |
Israeli Americans are uniquely arrogant, entitled and uneducated. They exploit this country for their benefit while only pledging allegiance to their beloved Israel. Plus a lot of them are pro-Trump, anti-vaxx, and anti-higher education.
| by Anonymous | reply 116 | January 6, 2022 11:28 AM |
Americans think Cleopatra was a dark-haired and possibly dark-skinned, stunningly hot woman wearing a black bob wig and exotically immodest clothes, maybe a slutty gold boob tube. Think what you might see depicted on a poker machine. She was actually a big nosed, relatively unexceptional-looking (although not unattractive) pale skinned redheaded Macedonian woman wearing a diadem on her head, a melon bun hairdo, and relatively modest long Greek-style robes. The studio will go with the bullshit over the truth, because the public is uneducated and wants to stay that way
| by Anonymous | reply 117 | January 6, 2022 11:34 AM |
[quote]I would love to see Arsinoe on screen.
Been done.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 118 | January 6, 2022 11:40 AM |
R115 Actress Gal Gadot has said a viral video she and some fellow Hollywood stars made at the beginning of the pandemic was "in poor taste". The video saw the 36-year-old partner with fellow actors who each sang a line from John Lennon's 1971 single Imagine. Jamie Dornan, Kristen Wiig and Will Ferrell took part in the stunt, which was widely mocked on social media. Gadot told InStyle she had had "all pure intentions, but sometimes you don't hit the bullseye".
When the video was released, it was criticised by fans as being tone deaf and cringe-worthy. At a time when many were distressed by the outbreak of coronavirus, many said A-list stars recording videos in their mansions was out of touch.
Wonder Woman star Gadot said that, with hindsight, the video was "premature". "I was calling Kristen [Wiig] and I was like, 'Listen, I want to do this thing,'" the actress explained. "The pandemic was in Europe and Israel before it came [to the US] in the same way. "I was seeing where everything was headed. But [the video] was premature. It wasn't the right timing, and it wasn't the right thing. It was in poor taste.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 119 | January 6, 2022 12:08 PM |
R117 true that Cleopatra, for the most part, dressed in the Greek-influenced Roman styles of the day, but she also donned traditional Egyptian garb for certain holidays and occasions. In particular, she loved dressing up as her idol Isis, goddess of healing/magic. In fact, Cleopatra was the first/only one of her family to bother to learn the Egyptian language/ways. The Ptolemys had ruled Egypt for three hundred years and Cleopatra was the last Pharaoh, so that should tell you how little they thought of Egyptian culture.
| by Anonymous | reply 120 | January 6, 2022 12:11 PM |
The lunatic on this thread seems to be self-mummified.
| by Anonymous | reply 121 | January 6, 2022 1:46 PM |
This deserves to be a lavish series on a streaming service. You could get at least two seasons out of it. A film isn't going to work, as Liz found out. The story is too big and complex for that compressed timeframe. And I think the general public is much more ignorant about classical history now than it was 50 years ago. Studios will also be wary of attracting parasitic activist attention, with various morons going off trying to make the film makers submit to their ideological narratives. A very basic indicator of the general ignorance out there is the widespread belief that Cleo was Egyptian and not Greek. That's rock bottom historical ignorance.
| by Anonymous | reply 122 | January 11, 2022 11:11 PM |
I thought Gaga was cast as Cleo?
| by Anonymous | reply 123 | January 11, 2022 11:16 PM |
True r122. People don't know shit about history these days, and there is also this annoying trend to try and make history fit into contemporary narratives.
| by Anonymous | reply 124 | January 11, 2022 11:57 PM |
It's not at all clear, r105, but Elagabalus might be a descendant of Cleopatra, although it's tenuous. The last known descendant of Cleopatra was Gaius Julius Alexio, the Priest-King of Emesa, in Syria. Elababalus begins life as the High Priest of the Emesene cult of Elababul, a hereditary position. By then, the "kingdom" had been absorbed into the Empire, and the King part was gone, but I assume there's still a connection to the Emesene dynasty.
Wild speculation, but I kind of like the idea of the Egyptian Temptress and the ultimate Voracious Bottom having a connection.
| by Anonymous | reply 125 | January 12, 2022 12:02 AM |
Macedonians look pretty damn white to me.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 126 | January 12, 2022 12:07 AM |
Oh, hell, I bet a lot of Egyptians look pretty damn white too. We are so silly about skin color, though it's such a stupid fucking thing for centuries now that it will probably never stop.
| by Anonymous | reply 127 | January 12, 2022 12:13 AM |
R126, lol, most Macedonians don't look like that
| by Anonymous | reply 128 | January 12, 2022 12:21 AM |
R122 is very concerned about "activists" but not about high school or Bible College dropouts like Lauren Boebert or Madison Cawthorn
| by Anonymous | reply 129 | January 12, 2022 12:22 AM |
R112 just because you want to picture her as beautiful doesn't mean she was
| by Anonymous | reply 130 | January 12, 2022 12:23 AM |
r128 what do "most" Macedonians look like?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 131 | January 12, 2022 12:26 AM |
Well there's probably some here. Don't they run Troll farms? So how about it, Macedonians. How white are you bitches?
| by Anonymous | reply 132 | January 12, 2022 12:27 AM |
These Macedonian dudes look pretty white.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 133 | January 12, 2022 12:28 AM |
r129 that's not who the shit stirrers are when it comes to Cleopatra.
| by Anonymous | reply 134 | January 12, 2022 12:29 AM |
Ancient Egyptians were Mediterranean and so were the Ancient Greeks. So they skin tones could range from very fair to very dark with olive skin being the most common. The urban areas of the Ancient Mediterranean were naturally very diverse though due to being major trading ports.
Cleopatra would look like the girl who's family owns the local Greek deli or pastry shop. Supposedly, she was not that beautiful but intelligent and charming. So Liz Taylor didn't fit.
| by Anonymous | reply 135 | January 12, 2022 12:31 AM |
Ancient Greeks were more fair than modern Greeks.
| by Anonymous | reply 136 | January 12, 2022 12:32 AM |
R136 No they really weren't. Many modern Greeks are fair in tone too but many have very dark sometimes curly hair and prominent noses. Blond hair and blue eyes exist but its less common than in Northern Europe. The population of Ancient Greece was not displaced, modern Greeks are the same people.
| by Anonymous | reply 137 | January 12, 2022 12:35 AM |
Modern Greeks have Turkish blood, they don't look the same as they did in ancient times. I thought this was common knowledge.
| by Anonymous | reply 138 | January 12, 2022 12:37 AM |
R138 Majority of Greeks I've met have the same features of Ancient Greek statues, drawings and frescos. Stout bodies, curly hair, hairy bodies and prominent noses and lips. Obviously not as beautiful because those artistic depictions were idealized often of royalty and gods. Just like how most Americans don't look like Hollywood stars.
Turks are also Mediterranean, they are not that much darker and unless every Turk was having sex with every single Greek that would not alter the entire phenotype of millions of people. Modern populations are not different from ancient because most people stayed close to their villages for thousands of years due to the difficulty of travel. Having migrations or even conquest cannot completely alter the DNA of the predominant population. Minority groups on the other hand are always more mixed especially marginalized.
| by Anonymous | reply 139 | January 12, 2022 12:42 AM |
r139 the Ottomans slaughtered many Greeks and there were a lot of rapes. This is pretty well known.
| by Anonymous | reply 140 | January 12, 2022 12:45 AM |
R140 Obviously they didn't slaughter everyone because the language spoken in Greece is related to Ancient Greek and most Greeks look Mediterranean and have a lot of Minoan and Mycenaean DNA. Of course they would resemble countries like Turkey that neighbor them than not? Why would the indigenous people in a country closer to the equator and closer to the Levant look Northern European with blond hair, pale skin and blue eyes? Wouldn't that be unfavorable for a hotter climate? And Spain, Portugal, France and Italy are farther from the equator and Middle East than Greece is, so it would make more sense for them to be fairer than Greeks.
| by Anonymous | reply 141 | January 12, 2022 12:51 AM |
R142 I'm sorry Fuhrer. The master race of Ancient Greece must be tall, pale and blue-eyed. They can't be olive-skinned, husky people with mostly brown eyes and black curly hair despite being in a hotter climate and closer to the Middle East and North Africa.
| by Anonymous | reply 143 | January 12, 2022 12:55 AM |
[quote]Gal Gadot's Cleopatra Movie Script Is Complete Shit
There! Finished it for you, OP!
| by Anonymous | reply 144 | January 12, 2022 12:56 AM |
So anyway, about Cleopatra's mixed-race kids, or whatever they were. I think it's kind of obnoxious that when it's all done, they stick Octavian's sister, Octavia, with Cleopatra and Antony's kids. I mean, that son of a bitch abandons her and their daughters to run off and fuck this Egyptian whore and she winds up with the kids?
| by Anonymous | reply 145 | January 12, 2022 12:58 AM |
r143 that's not what was said. You're projecting. Ancient Greeks were more fair, nobody said they were "Aryan." The Ottoman Turks occupied Greece for centuries and killed/raped many Greeks. As a result, modern Greeks are more swarthy than their ancient ancestors. This is common knowledge, I thought.
Furthermore, there weren't that many Greeks to begin with. It wasn't a very populous country.
| by Anonymous | reply 146 | January 12, 2022 12:58 AM |
r145 shit like that happens to this very day. Extended family members raise the kids of their relatives.
| by Anonymous | reply 147 | January 12, 2022 12:59 AM |
Well, that's one thing, r147. But how many exwives are raising their husband's bastards. It's one thing to stick them with grandma, but seriously. Hey honey, sorry I wanted to fuck this other ho, but here's her kids for you to raise.
| by Anonymous | reply 148 | January 12, 2022 1:01 AM |
R146 So the Ancient Greeks just looked more like French, Italians, Albanians, Portuguese and Spanish prior to the Ottoman occupation? Maybe it's me but most people would not tell the difference between a modern Greek and other Southern Europeans.
| by Anonymous | reply 149 | January 12, 2022 1:02 AM |
Lord.
I am not inferring anything substantive about what "African DNA" means other than the claim made here that this particular haplotype apparently originating in North Africa populated Europe leaving the characteristics shown here.
Just interesting. Qualitatively. A bit.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 150 | January 12, 2022 1:04 AM |
Quentin Tarantino explained the Southern European/Sicilian thing in True Romance.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 151 | January 12, 2022 1:05 AM |
I was hoping for something more like this:
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 152 | January 12, 2022 1:08 AM |
People seem to assume because a group invades another country and rules over that region that every single person is slaughtered and raped and the DNA is massively altered. Not true. That conquering group usually just acts a ruling class and if they are smart they would avoid using too much violence and find ways to compromise. Genocides are attempted by usually do not work unless the population is so tiny or there is a disease to help, it only ever seemed to worked on island tribes like the Caribs or Tasmanians. The most successful and long-running empires create a system that keeps the subjected group complicit enough to not want to rebel. Also Turkey and Greece are close to one another and they've always shared DNA due to that fact.
Most Greeks I've met are not that dark and they do not look nonwhite. Some are olive, some are pale and some are dark just like any other Southern European group. It makes no sense to assume they would be any more pale because the location of Greece would not typically favor an indigenous population of mostly pale-skinned individuals. Pale skin and light hair and eyes are recessive traits and were idealized because they were rare. Ancient Greek art was the equivalent of Hollywood and featured beautiful people and idealized features but they still looked Mediterranean. Obviously most real Greeks would not look that beautiful and perfect.
According to this article. Modern Greeks do share most of their genes with Ancient Greeks and the outside component actually comes from Eastern Europeans. Most Ancient Greeks had brown hair and brown eyes like modern Greeks do.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 153 | January 12, 2022 1:29 AM |
r153 lots of Turkish blood in modern Greeks. Remember, the Ottomans occupied Greece for centuries. They mixed with Greeks, they weren't just a ruling class.
| by Anonymous | reply 154 | January 12, 2022 1:31 AM |
The Turks were also large scale settler colonists. They had harems, and had a sexual economy based on conquest. Non-Muslim women were captured and traded as sexual concubines on a large scale.
| by Anonymous | reply 155 | January 12, 2022 2:25 AM |
Tthe reconstructed face of Mark Anthony looks more like that of Raul Arevalo, a Spanish actor.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 156 | January 12, 2022 2:44 AM |
Artist Shows How Roman Emperors Looked In Real Life By Using Facial Reconstruction, AI, And Photoshop
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 157 | January 12, 2022 2:49 AM |
[quote] Than they should start making films on real Egyptian women like Nefertiti and Hatshepsut.
Why?
| by Anonymous | reply 158 | January 12, 2022 2:52 AM |
Whatever Greeks as a population looked like then and now is pretty much irrelevant when we have reliable paintings and other representations of famous Macedonian Greeks at the time. Alexander was consistently depicted as blonde. Cleopatra was consistently depicted as a pale skinned redhead. This is not up for debate, all serious classical scholars accept this reality. It really doesn't matter if ideologues or pop culture morons like People magazine "feel like" she was "a woman of color".
| by Anonymous | reply 159 | January 12, 2022 7:33 AM |
R157, all those nice reconstructions but not one of hot DL fave Elagabulus?
| by Anonymous | reply 160 | January 12, 2022 9:02 AM |
Lady Gaga could have added a musical element to Cleo, that Jolie or Gadot could not.
| by Anonymous | reply 161 | January 12, 2022 12:43 PM |
Just as long as Gal doesn't sing "Imagine!"
| by Anonymous | reply 162 | January 12, 2022 12:49 PM |
Macedonians are from the Northern region so it makes sense they would have more incidents of fairer hair plus the influence of Slavic tribes.
| by Anonymous | reply 163 | January 12, 2022 1:50 PM |
"But how many exwives are raising their husband's bastards."
Oh, it's not like she'd have anything to do with the little bastards herself! "Raising" her ex-husband's children mean hiring, excuse me, buying an extra nanny. Because domestic labor including child care was done by slaves.
If she agreed to raise her ex-husband's bastards, it might have been because it was good for her image, and it certainly gave her a couple of interesting political pawns to use as her own. Women didn't have many rights in general in ancient Rome, but the women from the top families could be major power brokers, and one of the ways they exercised power was yes, to use everyone in the extended family as pawns. By arranging marriages and using connections, they could push the careers of individual family members and advance the interest of the family as a whole, and yes, orphans could be useful to a person like that. They could be kept tied to their guardian until she wanted to use them for her own purposes, if she was the kind of power broker woman that I'm talking about. You know, like Elagabalus's grandmother, the one who pushed her teen grandson onto the imperial throne, and changed him out for a different grandson when he became too much trouble?
| by Anonymous | reply 164 | January 13, 2022 11:33 PM |
Gal is absolutely gorgeous
| by Anonymous | reply 165 | January 13, 2022 11:44 PM |
Lynda Carter was even more gorgeous.
| by Anonymous | reply 166 | January 14, 2022 12:08 AM |
The only real Wonder Woman, Miss Cathy Lee Crosby, should play Cleoptra.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 167 | January 18, 2022 8:15 PM |
I’m wondering if Gal has the same clout as Liz to seek a million dollar salary as lead in Cleopatra. I know Wonder Woman has made her relatively famous, but this role could make her a star.
| by Anonymous | reply 169 | January 18, 2022 8:57 PM |
A million dollars? That's what the script girl will make this time around.
No, Gal is not as big a star as Liz was in 1960 but she'll make plenty of dough if the movie sells.
| by Anonymous | reply 170 | January 18, 2022 9:03 PM |
I'll be surprised if this goes ahead now. Gal's star has dimmed slightly, the original director, whose project this was, is not a hot thing anymore and is off the project, COVID has made blockbusters a hard prospect, and the subject matter doesn't lend itself to a dumb mass audience. Then add in the political problems we have now with telling the truth about history. Cleopatra was neither black nor an indigenous Egyptian but that won't stop idiot activists from kicking up a stink.
| by Anonymous | reply 171 | January 18, 2022 10:07 PM |
The only reason the '63 Cleo eventually recouped its investment was the Taylor-Burton scandal. If it hadn't had that, it probably would have double-bombed at the BO.
What dirt does this new version have to offer?
| by Anonymous | reply 172 | January 19, 2022 6:02 PM |
Gal Gadot looks like a transvestite.
| by Anonymous | reply 173 | January 19, 2022 6:25 PM |
I think a script based on the making of the Taylor/Burton film Cleopatra would be more interesting.
| by Anonymous | reply 174 | January 19, 2022 6:30 PM |
[quote]Cleopatra wasn’t blood Egyptian. She was Greek.
She was NOT Greek, she was Macedonian!
| by Anonymous | reply 175 | January 19, 2022 6:32 PM |
And she was a hook-nosed geek, not a chiseled Israeli supermodel.
| by Anonymous | reply 176 | January 19, 2022 6:39 PM |
And now Gal has been announced as starring in a remake of “To Catch a Thief.”
How much ya wanna bet she’ll be playing the Cary Grant role!
Talk about rewrites!
| by Anonymous | reply 177 | January 20, 2022 9:05 PM |
Cleopatra resembled a toney Connecticut suburb yoga frau in the yogurt aisle at Whole Foods!?
| by Anonymous | reply 178 | January 21, 2022 3:12 AM |
r178 Gal Gadot does not look like one of those women, believe me.
| by Anonymous | reply 179 | January 21, 2022 3:18 AM |
R145 I think it was a thing. Caesar executed Juba I and then brought his son back to Rome as a prisoner and then adopted him.
And it wasn’t for long. Octavia had Cleopatra Selene marry Juba II when she was 15 so the kids were probably only in the house for a few years lol.
We don’t know what happened to the sons Alexander and Ptolemy. They either died in Rome from an illnesses as children or they went with Selene to Mauretania and lived to be adults.
| by Anonymous | reply 180 | January 21, 2022 3:36 AM |
Someone had pointed this out in another thread (I think) but Alba Flores would be a perfect Cleopatra as she is the closest person I’ve seen to resembling the statue.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 181 | January 21, 2022 3:40 AM |
The woman who played her in HBO series Rome actually looked incredibly like her, in terms of facial features. The colouring was off though. As far as I'm aware Cleo's never been played a red head. Gingerphobia or ignorance?
| by Anonymous | reply 182 | January 21, 2022 7:25 AM |
Historical accounts say that Cleopatra did have red hair.
| by Anonymous | reply 183 | January 21, 2022 7:38 AM |
[quote] Gal Gadot looks like a transvestite.
Agree. There were certain scenes in Wonder Woman (especially 1984) where I swear I was watching a man in drag.
| by Anonymous | reply 184 | January 22, 2022 3:45 PM |
This Cleopatra (the seventh) was greek/macedonian and she didn't even speak the native language, so it's definitely okay that she's played by a someone with Caucasian features. Egypt was way past it's prime while she was queen. And Egypt is really just a pretty backdrop to this fascinating story of romance and war. I think we should make a movie about a real Coptic Egyptian queen though, like Nefertiti, or Hatshepsut. They were actually successful at their jobs, and they were brown skin girls <3
| by Anonymous | reply 185 | January 22, 2022 4:20 PM |
"Agree. There were certain scenes in Wonder Woman (especially 1984) where I swear I was watching a man in drag."
That was okay with me, because Wonder Woman was always both masculine and feminine, I mean in the movie she both led armies and cooed over babies.
But that ambiguity is from the comics, I mean she's always been feminine enough to have big boobs and big hair, but she's also a big strong muscular person who could punch your teeth in even if she was human. I guess you could say she always been a bit androgynous in a fully adult way, with adult boobs and muscles together, instead of looking like the traditional androgynous idea of a teen boy in drag.
| by Anonymous | reply 186 | January 23, 2022 12:38 AM |
Wonder Woman is an Amazon and Amazons are tall, muscular, big-titted women.
| by Anonymous | reply 187 | January 23, 2022 12:49 AM |
Gaga has booked Cabaret, win to Gaga. Gal cannot sing.
| by Anonymous | reply 188 | January 23, 2022 2:17 AM |
Good for Gaga. I was never fond of the Fosse film. I hope they don't just remake the movie, that they go back to the play this time and bring out all the other characters.
| by Anonymous | reply 189 | January 28, 2022 8:37 PM |
Bumping this thread again for more Cleopatra talk from another thread.
It dawned on me why her suicide makes so much sense. She most likely witnessed her oldest sister getting publicly beheaded and her youngest sister being paraded through Caesar’s parade. She didn’t want to be third.
| by Anonymous | reply 190 | March 15, 2022 5:25 AM |
[quote] She didn’t want to be third.
She was the seventh, Cleopatra VII Philopator more precisely.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 191 | March 15, 2022 5:27 AM |
Augustus probably wouldn't have treated her all that badly if she were captured. Sure, he'd have deposed her, and paraded her through the streets of Rome, but Antony was his real enemy. Like as not, Cleo wouldn't have been executed or thrown in a windowless dungeon to rot in the dark, but kept in fairly luxurious captivity in exile.
Some important prisoners were sent to live on isolated islands with nothing to do, a hut on a barren rock if the Emperor was seriously pissed, or a villa on a nice island if not. But that wouldn't do for the ex-queen of a seafaring people, more likely she'd have been sent to an isolated villa or temple in the country, where she was constantly watched and had nothing to do. But like Cleopatra's sister Arsinoe, who spent years of exiles living with the priestesses in the Temple of Artemis in Ephesus, she may have been kept alive and treated with dignity in case she might prove useful to the Empire. But if Cleopatra would rather have taken a quick way out rather than live as a captive, that was up to her.
| by Anonymous | reply 192 | March 15, 2022 8:16 AM |
[quote]They should’ve cast an Egyptian woman.
Egyptians and Jewish people are essentially genetically identical. Jewish people probably come from Egypt. Casting is appropriate.
| by Anonymous | reply 193 | March 15, 2022 11:16 AM |
Cleopatra was Greek/Macedonian not Egyptian by descent.
| by Anonymous | reply 194 | March 15, 2022 11:21 AM |
[quote] They should’ve cast an Egyptian woman.
It's ENTERTAINMENT for Chrissake. It's not real life.
| by Anonymous | reply 195 | March 17, 2022 6:00 PM |
[quote]Will they get any actual Egyptian actors to play Egyptians in the film? I'm looking at you Gods of Egypt.
No, they only seem to manage to find Middle Eastern people when they want to cast terrorists, but we're not supposed to say certain things about Hollywood. Biblical films and the like, they put the callback sheet away for Arabs.
[quote]It's ENTERTAINMENT for Chrissake. It's not real life.
Sure, I'll think about that as I see idiots go ballistic over films with spaceships and dragons having the audacity to cast non-white people. Funny how you only manage to say this shit when someone wonders why a non-white person wasn't cast...esp., in something based on actual history rather than nonsense with unicorns, goblins and other mythical crap.
| by Anonymous | reply 196 | March 17, 2022 6:08 PM |
[quote] No, they only seem to manage to find Middle Eastern people when they want to cast terrorists, but we're not supposed to say certain things about Hollywood. Biblical films and the like, they put the callback sheet away for Arabs.
Apparently you haven't watched any films since True Lies. Time to catch up, hon.
| by Anonymous | reply 197 | March 17, 2022 6:24 PM |
R71 Catherine the Great got to fuck her pick of the top hottest military guys as well as foreign royals (she had a child with the king of Poland)
Not many Queens had such a great sex life.
| by Anonymous | reply 198 | March 17, 2022 6:27 PM |
At least Brenton Thwaites was appropriately cast in Gods of Egypt.
| by Anonymous | reply 199 | March 17, 2022 6:28 PM |
[quote]Apparently you haven't watched any films since True Lies. Time to catch up, hon.
Since they're still using bullshit imagery of Jesus Christ alone in films, I'm all caught up.
| by Anonymous | reply 200 | March 17, 2022 6:41 PM |
R191 I meant third daughter of Auletes to be publicly shamed and executed.
She most likely watched her sister Berenice get beheaded in Egypt and she was definitely there when Arsinoe was paraded through Rome.
| by Anonymous | reply 201 | March 17, 2022 7:14 PM |
[quote] Since they're still using bullshit imagery of Jesus Christ alone in films, I'm all caught up.
Maybe you should stop watching Christian movies. There's a whole other world out there. Live!
| by Anonymous | reply 202 | March 17, 2022 7:26 PM |
R192 Yeah I don’t think he’d have executed her either. I think she just couldn’t bear the walk of shame.
Her kids were in his parade and he made Selene became a queen of Mauretania and he took no issue with her turning it into a little Alexandria.
I think Selene moved Cleopatra and Antony were to Mauretania. When Emperors visited Egypt, they would do a Mark Anthony tour and it was never mentioned they visited his tomb, which means it wasn’t there.
| by Anonymous | reply 203 | March 17, 2022 11:35 PM |
The Rest Is History podcast is currently in the midst of a four part series on Cleopatra and in the most recent episode on Antony and Cleopatra they suggested their ideal cast for this movie:
Cleo: Gal Gadot
Mark Antony: Oscar Isaac
Octavian: Tom Holland
Thoughts?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 204 | June 16, 2022 8:29 PM |
Casting as the Queen of the Nile an Israeli Army veteran who used to work with the Mossad hit squads will cause a whole new Jihad.
| by Anonymous | reply 205 | June 16, 2022 9:59 PM |
[quote]She turned high profile after Wonder Woman and as a part of Marvel Universe. Now, she's in high demand by film studios. A simple logic to follow but I understand it's hard for a simpleton like you.
Wonder Woman isn't a Marvel character, so perhaps you aren't the one who should be calling other people "simpleton," r9.
| by Anonymous | reply 206 | June 16, 2022 10:18 PM |
Cleopatra was a hairy homely Greek woman.
| by Anonymous | reply 207 | June 16, 2022 10:47 PM |
R71 You put Mary Queen of Scots over Catherine the Great?
Also I’ve met a fair number of pale, red headed, green eyed Turks from Turkey (as opposed to being born in the US).
| by Anonymous | reply 208 | June 16, 2022 10:55 PM |
R204 I think Daniel Craig as Caesar.
Tom Holland as Octavian is interesting I never thought about it but I see it.
| by Anonymous | reply 209 | June 16, 2022 11:04 PM |
[quote]Quentin Tarantino explained the Southern European/Sicilian thing in True Romance.
But not correctly. According to National Geographic's DNA sampling so far, only 3% of Sicilians (actually living in Sicily and Sardinia, as well as American Sicilians) have Central or Southern African DNA. The rest of us have Northern African DNA that often shows up on as Arab/Middle Eastern- my aunt and uncle look like they should be living in Dubai instead of Ohio.
Btw, until last year, "Italian" was lumped in on both my DNA tests with Greek. We were not a distinct category beforehand, because Italian is a grouping of Northern and Southern tribes bound by nationality more than one distinct ethnicity.
| by Anonymous | reply 210 | June 16, 2022 11:11 PM |
Isn’t Rami Malik Egyptian? Throw him a bone and give him a part!
| by Anonymous | reply 211 | June 17, 2022 2:14 AM |
Does GAGA just make films now? She was promised Cleopatra and they screwed her over. A better role would be as Caroline Ingalls in the planned big screen adaption of Little House on The Prairie. Miss Beadle would be too small a role. Angelina Jolie as Mrs. Olsen would be good, too.
| by Anonymous | reply 212 | June 17, 2022 2:21 AM |
No one will see this movie.
Big fat yawn.
| by Anonymous | reply 213 | June 17, 2022 2:23 AM |
There’s nothing to yawn at about Cleopatra and it’s weird to act like her story has been beat to death when her story has never been told accurately on screen.
| by Anonymous | reply 214 | June 17, 2022 2:28 AM |
Fugliest Cleopatra ever was the charisma free Lynsey Marshall in Rome.
| by Anonymous | reply 215 | June 17, 2022 2:29 AM |
Fewer people care about watching a Cleopatra story than dark haired, white actresses who a want to play a sexy queen.
| by Anonymous | reply 216 | June 17, 2022 2:30 AM |
I remember awhile back when Angelina Jolie was the front runner for this role and a private memo was revealed by a studio executive saying how the script to this film was a piece of crap. This was during the Weinstein days. I wonder if it's the same left over script that went to Gal Gadot? Even if it's not I still can't see her as Cleopatra. She is a total vanilla actor. Boring and mediocre.
| by Anonymous | reply 217 | June 17, 2022 2:45 AM |
R217 No, the script was written last year by a woman. I believe it’s based on the Stacy Schiffer book.
I never read the Angelina Jolie Cleopatra script but I read the Sony exchanges where there were notes and outlines.
It’s not that it was a piece of crap, it was that Aaron Sorkin had written a 450 page screenplay and they were going so crazy trying to trim it and make it into a workable script that it turned into a mess of ideas. Angelina wanted a female “Gladiator”, Amy Pascal wanted basically an updated Burton / Taylor movie, and Scott Rudin wanted nothing because the Cleopatra movie was interfering with his other project, the Steve Jobs biopic.
Scorsese and Fincher were more interested in Cleopatra and Angelina was wooing them away from the Steve Jobs biopic Rudin was pushing on them. Then in the middle of it, Angelina went off to direct a movie.
The problem from the emails is they were trying too hard to tie in Cleopatra’s role in Rome too much.
But from what I read from the notes it would have been too Oliver Stone’s “Alexander”. Too stuffy.
This was also pre-Game of Thrones craze, before you could make costume / historical pieces with lots of dirty sex and violence that appealed to younger audiences.
But yeah the script was so tangled, towards the end they just wanted to adapt the Shakespeare play.
| by Anonymous | reply 218 | June 17, 2022 3:10 AM |
This dame has one great agent, because she, Gadot, is a bland nothing. Casting her as the femme fatale in "Death on the Nile" was risible. Wonder Woman? GTHOH.
And now Cleopatra?! The woman who enchanted both Caesar and Antony? Totally believable with Elizabeth Taylor.
This cipher? Fuhgeddaboutit.
| by Anonymous | reply 219 | June 17, 2022 3:23 AM |
The problem with Cleopatra on film is they always chose romance drama over historical drama.
With the death of romance movies and the boom of Game of Thrones-esque costume dramas, I feel like Cleopatra’s story can finally be told correctly.
Plus there’s other stories to explore that are apart of the story, that’s why it should be a miniseries.
Cleopatra’s rival sister Arsinoe, Mark Antony’s mobster wife Fulvia, Cicero, Octavia, Herod the Great would all make for scene stealing characters. Even a teenage Caesarion, who has only been depicted as a child in the movies even though he was 17 when Octavian killed him.
Or like I said, if they’re going to make a movie and not a miniseries, just the last year of Cleopatra and Mark Antony’s life would be epic. Their return to Alexandria and how Mark Antony fell into depression while Cleopatra was trying to do everything in her power to avoid Octavian would be an interesting 2 hour movie.
| by Anonymous | reply 220 | June 17, 2022 3:31 AM |
All this talk about HISTORY...honestly. This is Hollywood, honey, and if this thing ever gets made, the only it will be about is MONEY.
| by Anonymous | reply 222 | July 17, 2022 2:12 AM |
Marc Anthony should play Marc Anthony.
I'd watch if he flashed his big uncut Pinga
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 223 | July 17, 2022 10:45 AM |
If they gone with Lady Gaga, this film would have been made 2 years ago now, and Gaga would have her 2nd Oscar.
| by Anonymous | reply 224 | July 17, 2022 2:32 PM |
Gaga was linked to the rumoured Denis Villeneuve project, not this one.
| by Anonymous | reply 225 | July 18, 2022 12:09 AM |
Look at the production team lmao. This production was clearly greenlit just to give Gal Gadot a job. It has nothing to do with the Angelina Job-Amy Pascal project, or the one Denis Villeneuve was going to make (still might) possibly with Gaga. Those ones actually sounded somewhat promising. This one would be headed for a clean sweep at the Razziea if it weren't for the all-female prod team.
| by Anonymous | reply 226 | July 18, 2022 12:15 AM |
So Dennis Villeneuve said he will make Cleopatra after “Dune 2”.
| by Anonymous | reply 227 | March 29, 2023 5:10 AM |
Lady Gaga would make a perfect Cleopatra VII:
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 228 | March 29, 2023 11:26 AM |
Who would be Antony, based on this sculpture?
| by Anonymous | reply 229 | March 29, 2023 11:27 AM |
R228 She really was an ugly broad. This is for idiots like R112 who thinks history is like Hollywood and airport novels.
| by Anonymous | reply 231 | March 29, 2023 11:49 AM |
R231 I don’t think she was ugly.
Alba Flores very much resembles the statue and I think she’s pretty.
The “Cleopatra was ugly” myth came from the BBC after discovering her coins. She converted her fathers coin into her coin to save money during her first years of reign. They gave her fathers hair braids lol.
| by Anonymous | reply 232 | March 29, 2023 11:07 PM |
I think Oscar Isaac would be a good Mark Antony.
For some reason I’ve always seen Daniel Craig as Caesar.
Some twinky actor as Octavian.
| by Anonymous | reply 233 | March 29, 2023 11:09 PM |
R231 Wait how am I an idiot at the fact there’s zero evidence she was ugly?? You literally bought into a sensational BBC article and I’m the dumb one.
The Romans would have called her ugly if she was.
| by Anonymous | reply 234 | March 29, 2023 11:10 PM |
r234 I'm not sure whether this coin story you keep telling is true, but the images on the coin look exactly like the statue -- a woman with tied back and a huge nose. I'm less sure than you are that Romans would have targeted her appearance if she were ugly. When going after women, Roman satire attacked their sexual habits more than their looks.
r232 I had to google who Alba Flores was. I find her very plain.
| by Anonymous | reply 235 | March 30, 2023 3:04 AM |
a cleo movie does not make sense i agree, even the HBO Rome Miniseries could not explain the Egyptian part of the roman empire nor Cleopatra correctly. Stacy Schiff book in non fiction, history. It is not one way.
| by Anonymous | reply 236 | March 30, 2023 3:16 AM |
R236 I thought Rome was horrible. I hated the curtain tassel wigs. They made her into a junkie.
I mean this scene was just comedic. Ptolemy Theos has always been depicted poorly. He had guardians running the show but he was a more ruthless kid than depicted on screen.
This was a kid who cried his way out of Caesar’s house arrest and when Caesar released him, he went on the battlegrounds and fought against him. He died on a sinking ship.
Not to mention how her sister Arsinoe has been erased. She was in the 1999 movie. She was ruthless too. She was as much a threat to Julius Caesar during the Siege of Alexandria as Ptolemy Theos.
| by Anonymous | reply 238 | March 30, 2023 4:36 AM |
R236 I also think I said it before.
I think the best Cleopatra movie would be the last year of her and Mark Antonty’s life. From her return to Egypt after the Battle of Actium to her death.
When Cleopatra returned to Egypt, they said she had a lot of wealthy elitist who “were in the know” executed and their estates seized and turned over to her to keep her loss quiet. She spent a lot of time planning to escape and many fails - her attempts to try and start over in Spain and her huge mission to escape to India. She also executed a King who was imprisoned by Antony and sent his head to another king in hopes for help.
Antony lost control and went off to find help and came back to Egypt broken and spent time isolated for months until Cleopatra took him back in.
And they had separate exchanges with Octavian that were interested and tested their relationship.
It would be a really good movie that focuses on Cleopatra’s emotional state and goals which is what’s always been missing from the movies.
The movies also poorly depict her relationship with Caesarion. He was 17 when he died. In the Liz movie he’s about 6 lol. I believe she made him full ruler of Egypt before she died. Her mission at the end was to keep him on the throne, not her.
| by Anonymous | reply 239 | March 30, 2023 4:47 AM |
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