I'll begin with Hart Crane (Poet) I only know of him through Tennessee Williams. Tennessee described him in a way that implied he did not give a damn who knew of his homosexuality. With excitement I watched the documentary 'Hart Crane - Voices & Visions' (Available on YouTube) only to learn what a sad, pathetic tit he was. Shacked up with his close friends ex-wife 'Peggy Cowley' who he professed to marry while still taking the D on the DL. Drunk and beaten ended with throwing himself of a ship by way of suicide.
| by Anonymous | reply 130 | June 28, 2021 8:07 PM |
Hart Crane is my favorite poet. Read his stuff. It's fing amazing.
| by Anonymous | reply 1 | July 4, 2019 3:24 PM |
Stephen Splender (Poet/Writer) ran in the Christopher Isherwood crowd. Denounced his homosexuality and even went as far as revising his own poems, any mention of homosexuality removed or altered. Since he turned into a homophobe I wonder how he felt when his daughter married a transvestite.
| by Anonymous | reply 2 | July 4, 2019 3:40 PM |
R1 I made an attempt to read his poems. I found some difficult to understand and a little pretentious if I'm honest.
| by Anonymous | reply 3 | July 4, 2019 3:43 PM |
Peggy Cowley was married to Malcolm Crowley, a brilliant editor. She was also very close to Dorothy Day, who co-founded the Catholic Worker Movement in the 1930's.
| by Anonymous | reply 4 | July 4, 2019 3:46 PM |
Gary Grant, unfortunately. Openly lived with his boyfriend Randolph Scott in the 1930's, going to parties as a couple, and being seen constantly in public together. Only to have the studios threaten him and he eventually married and tried to convince himself it was a phase. Sad really. He tried and was brave, but got beaten back by the post war 1950's conservatism.
| by Anonymous | reply 5 | July 4, 2019 3:47 PM |
John Wayne, queen of the butch.
| by Anonymous | reply 7 | July 4, 2019 9:14 PM |
John Gielgud. Had a breakdown after he was outed. He wrote a screen play for a porno. I haven't seen it. Does anyone know if it's any good?
| by Anonymous | reply 11 | July 4, 2019 9:56 PM |
Varian Fry - He was an American journalist who co-founded a literary journal while a student at Harvard. He lived openly as a gay man while very young, then decided homosexuality was a sign of sexual immaturity. Married an older woman and divorced. Remarried, had two children and divorced again. While working as a journalist, he managed to get kicked out of Nazi Germany for writing about links between the Nazi Party and Brown Shirt activities, which the Nazi Party had previously denied. He went on to run a network helping artists and intellectuals escape Vichy France. He also carried messages for the Resistance and helped downed British pilots escape into Spain. Fascinating, brilliant, prickly man.
| by Anonymous | reply 12 | July 5, 2019 6:46 PM |
I thought Luke Evans was out-ish?
| by Anonymous | reply 15 | July 6, 2019 7:56 PM |
Is this thread about famous "ex-gays" or famous gays who pushed themselves back in the closet?
| by Anonymous | reply 16 | July 6, 2019 7:57 PM |
All of them are bisexuals. Let women deal with them. Bisexuals are cowards.
| by Anonymous | reply 17 | July 6, 2019 8:03 PM |
R15: Luke was out, then he tried in HW and went in the closet (and he was really pathetic at it), then he met Jon Kortajarena was was quite public in their relationship (which is curious given Luke was back in the closet and Jon is very private). He is out now
| by Anonymous | reply 19 | July 6, 2019 8:13 PM |
I don't believe that Cary Grant was afflicted with homosexuality. He lived with another bachelor when he first made it in Hollywood, but goodness he was so handsome and married so many women. He fathered children and remained a very handsome man. I think he gets accused of gayness because he was refined in his dress and manners. Cary had good taste. That shouldn't confuse people about his lifestyle choice.
| by Anonymous | reply 21 | July 6, 2019 9:22 PM |
Thank you for teleporting yourself to the present day from 1956, R21. Now, you can go back there.
| by Anonymous | reply 22 | July 6, 2019 9:31 PM |
Cary married only because the studio demanded it. He even took Randy on his honeymoon with his first wife. There are plenty of people who've come forward and talked about Cary and his relationships with men. Even Cary himself admitted he had a "homosexual problem" to his psychiatrist. Sadly he tried to convince himself he wasn't "one of them" and tried to court and even marry a few more wives (in public) while having affairs with men (in private). Even other stars of the era knew of his sexuality.
| by Anonymous | reply 23 | July 6, 2019 9:33 PM |
I go back in and out of the closet depending where I am. A city, a small town, a third world country. A bit like traveling in time sometimes, the guiding principle being discretion and good sense.
| by Anonymous | reply 24 | July 7, 2019 6:27 AM |
Nick Jonas was inching his way out but then crawled back into the closet.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 28 | July 7, 2019 11:55 AM |
No, Nick Jonas really really wanted his gay fans, but he never had an intention to come out (if he is gay)
| by Anonymous | reply 29 | July 7, 2019 12:03 PM |
Nick Jonas doesn't have the gay.
| by Anonymous | reply 30 | July 7, 2019 12:26 PM |
Perhaps Stephen Daldry - he has given inconsistent answers since he married a woman in 2000 vacillating between she is nothing more than a glorified incubator for kids he desperately wanted to sire au natural AND/OR she is the love of his life,and they still bang every day even after she popped out the kids - pussy is magical. I think he is just a coward who unexpectedly made lots of money from saccharine screenplays and the wife was the easiest way to parenthood so he pays her lots of money and spends a good deal more on rent boys...
But the british tabs had a field day, especially the Daily Fail, trumpeting his supposed cure from homosexuality - just like they did when Tom Robinson who went from "Glad to be Gay" in the 70s to marrying a woman and fathering a child right before AIDS hit. Robinson, who still loves to play the poor bisexual victim to this day, (in his telling he was publically booed off the stage at a Pride event shortly after his marriage his the press but I'd still boo him to this day so deal with it) even though he was adamant that he was still fully gay except for his wife up until a few years ago when he realized bisexuality wasn't as taboo and he could make a few more pounds from boring radio docs commissioned by Radio 4 -yet didn't let his moral high ground interfere with selling pictures of his wife and new born baby to Hello Magazine and providing quotes for the Daily Mail shitting on gay men from his newly achieved heterosexual marriage and paternity.
Daldry has just ignored the press or gave cryptic and contradictory quotes when his agent forces him to give interviews to promote his major projects and he always is described as uncomfortable or cross when the subject inevitably come up. Although in the last last few years he is trying to selectively rewrite history and pick up the plot as if it were 1999 and he is a proud promiscuous homo screwing hot young understudies (well he probably never stopped that part) and the wife is just a long time fag hag.
Speaking of obnoxious British gays, I volunteer Andrew Sullivan to renounce his homosexuality and never write or speak about it publically ever again. The ex-gays can have him...
| by Anonymous | reply 31 | July 7, 2019 12:44 PM |
British celebrities really have a tendency to go in and out of the closet.
Even he is austrlian Baz Luhrman is other director who was supposed to be gay but married a woman.
Now actors have an easy way to do the things, they are not even shamed for having beards in the past because all them avoid come out as gay, all are queer, fluid or their sexuality is in the spectrum.
Curiously the one who are really bi have no problem to come out as bisexual
| by Anonymous | reply 32 | July 7, 2019 1:02 PM |
Robert "My bisexuality was manufactured" Downey Jr.
That man likes dick.
| by Anonymous | reply 33 | July 7, 2019 1:43 PM |
R25, I could barely get past the word "afflicted".
| by Anonymous | reply 34 | July 7, 2019 1:51 PM |
R31 I didn't know that about Daldry or Robinson. I just assumed they were living out as gay men all this time. What complete bellends, especially Robinson.
| by Anonymous | reply 35 | July 7, 2019 2:36 PM |
I think R21 is having a spot of fun.
| by Anonymous | reply 37 | July 7, 2019 2:43 PM |
Or making a nuanced social commentary. Maybe both.
| by Anonymous | reply 38 | July 7, 2019 2:44 PM |
Really disappointed to find Peter Thatchell quote on Robinson's Wikipedia page;
"Tom Robinson has behaved rather commendably, in my view. Ever since the beginning of his relationship with Sue, he has continued to describe himself as 'a gay man who happens to be in love with a woman' Who could quarrel with that? I can't."
Exactly what is commendable about an asshole pretending to be gay? He made homosexuality look like a choice that can be cured. He's just setting actual gay people back.
And the nerve to say this: "a gay man who happens to be in love with a woman". He can fuck all the way off with that shit! I hope his marriage fails, if it hasn't already.
| by Anonymous | reply 39 | July 7, 2019 2:46 PM |
EXACTLY R39. This bullshit is actually common, and this does get heralded as commendable and noble. Pushing homosexuality to involve being able to romantically love a woman, and settle down with a woman, has been going on in the past, and it's going on more now in the present. The amount of dumbfucks who push this are even "so called gay men". Everything is geared towards mocking homosexual orientation. Look at this thread and notice the last comment made by this "so called gay man".
| by Anonymous | reply 40 | July 7, 2019 3:08 PM |
R39: Here is the other thread link again.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 41 | July 7, 2019 3:09 PM |
Daldry, Robinson, Jake Arnott and others like them (including their female counterparts) who pursued opposite-sex relationships after years of dating the same sex are not obligated to explain or justify their relationships to the public in general or gays in particular. You can measure your own tolerance by whether or not you accept Tom Robinson as a legitimate member of the "queer" community.
| by Anonymous | reply 42 | July 7, 2019 3:18 PM |
R42: Typical narcissistic comment from a "gay man" guilty of lying and probably doing the exact same shit now or has done the same shit. When you push a lie to the public about homosexuality being a choice that you can flick on and off and pursue any relationship you want with either men or women; you actually are accountable to the public and the gay community to provide an explanation. Homosexuality is scientific. It's not an item of clothing you try on then take off, maybe wear sometimes when you feel like it, and then one day just completely stop wearing it and abandon it like it was never real.
| by Anonymous | reply 43 | July 7, 2019 3:29 PM |
R42: Homophobe blocked. R42 and R21 are homophobes.
| by Anonymous | reply 44 | July 7, 2019 3:35 PM |
How does it feel to be blind to your own intolerance? Why do you have such a problem accepting that sexuality is not black and white for everyone?
| by Anonymous | reply 45 | July 7, 2019 3:42 PM |
No one needs to apologize for upsetting your simplified view of human sexuality.
| by Anonymous | reply 46 | July 7, 2019 3:59 PM |
[quote]Tom Robinson who went from "Glad to be Gay" in the 70s to marrying a woman and fathering a child right before AIDS hit. Robinson, who still loves to play the poor bisexual victim to this day, (in his telling he was publically booed off the stage at a Pride event shortly after his marriage his the press but I'd still boo him to this day so deal with it)
I love you R31.
I never understood guys like Robinson who were out and proud when it was impossible to be, then when AIDS came long suddenly found "love" with a woman.
I have to wonder if it was all just a put on to stand out and be different.
| by Anonymous | reply 47 | July 7, 2019 5:18 PM |
There was a British comedian who was a lesbian but married a man and had kids.
And the guy who directed Billie Elliot hooked up with a woman and had a kid
And of course, well known pussy hound Bryan Singer!
| by Anonymous | reply 48 | July 7, 2019 5:22 PM |
Peter Thatchell is a gasbag who likes to see his name in print.
Elton John belongs here--yes eventually came out but he's such an ass trading on decades ago fame and singning for Rushbo.
| by Anonymous | reply 49 | July 7, 2019 5:28 PM |
Porn maker Joe Gage married a woman, had kids and renounce his homosexuality and stoped making porn in the early 80s.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 50 | July 7, 2019 5:30 PM |
R46: If you are in love with a woman you are not gay, period. Bisexual with a preference for men, totally possible, but not gay
R48: Bryan Singer came out as bisexual with the worst possible timing.
Anyway, it's not the same to do such things on the past than in recent years, the level of tolerance was totally different. Of course the level of cowardice in HW didn't change and you can see a lot of actors bearding right now
| by Anonymous | reply 51 | July 7, 2019 5:31 PM |
R11 I'm not sure that John Gielgud could fit into this premise.
Gielgud, Coward, Beaumont, and Beaton were all successful in a rarified society and didn't need to be married to a female.
Though, for some unknown reason, Guinness, Redgrave and Emlyn Williams did choose to marry a beard.
I don't think Gielgud's 'breakdown' after his arrest was any more traumatic than the other petty dramas in his life. His so-called porn script was of no account at all.
| by Anonymous | reply 52 | July 7, 2019 11:30 PM |
R39 That should be 'Tatchell' not 'Thatchell'.
Peter Tatchell has said lots of screwy things over his long, raddled life; he's more of a socialist than a homosexual (I hope he hasn't been living on the dole for the last 47 years).
| by Anonymous | reply 53 | July 8, 2019 12:12 AM |
Aaron Schock will go back into closet. Mark my words.
| by Anonymous | reply 54 | July 8, 2019 12:14 AM |
Tachell is an asshole. I remember him lecturing Ireland about gay marriage, which they passed despite him.
Joe Gage went back to making gay porn in tehe 2000s.
| by Anonymous | reply 55 | July 8, 2019 12:17 AM |
I did not know Joe Gage was ever "out". I just assumed he was one of those guys who was gay never open and always intended to go into a conventional marriage. Daldrey was in a long term relationship with a man for number of years before he married Lucy Sexton. He gave interviews about the time The Hours was being released were he seemed to imply that he was always bisexual and that "gay" was being imposed on him and was something that did not accurately describe him. Yet in interviews just a few years ago Sexton refers to him as gay. I surpised no one has brought up Tom Hardy.
| by Anonymous | reply 56 | July 8, 2019 12:37 AM |
Going in the closet is surprisinly easy even today, Luke Evans and Sam Heugham are perfect examples.
And the press is always ready to buy the straight narrative, there were a lot of articles about Shawn Mendes and Hailey Baldwin or Shawn and Camila Cabello even he denied the relationship in both cases (for some reason i can't write on the mendes thread, it seems to be too exclusive or something like that, just llike the Connor Jessup thread).
I'm a little surprised he denied being with Camila because that looked like the most obvious pr stunt in recent years.
R56: The gay being impossed on him is as ridiculous as when Jessie J complained about the press saying she was bisexual. She had plenty opportunities to deny it but she never did.
But on women is even more blatant because for singers promoting a bi image was in fashion during a while, so you got examples like Nicki MInaj saying she was bi only to deny it when that was not that marketable
| by Anonymous | reply 58 | July 8, 2019 7:47 AM |
From Wikipedia on Randolph Scott:
He met Grant on the set of Hot Saturday (1932), and shortly afterwards, to save on living expenses, they shared a beach house for 12 years in Malibu that became known as "Bachelor Hall".
I think 'to save on living expenses' is my new favourite code for two male lovers living together.
| by Anonymous | reply 59 | July 8, 2019 8:10 AM |
R56 Good point. Tom Hardy is a perfect example.
I don’t think Tom Hardy expected to get the type of Hollywood career he now has. When he first appeared years ago, he was doing a lot of TV and BBC Drama. I think he assumed he’d be a working British actor so was never secretive about the fact he went with men.
Then he gets a Hollywood film career and starts denying he’d ever admitted this.
| by Anonymous | reply 60 | July 8, 2019 8:30 AM |
Tatchell is very good at working the press but his activism is hit or miss - he seems to excel the most at self-promotion. He has always had odd theories about sexuality that were more common among the left wing gay libbers of the 70s who drew heavily on Freud's universal bisexuality - Tatchell is still writing silly columns promoting this theory every few years. He even included an essay on it in Mark Simpson's nasty little book of essays called "Anti-Gay" - I was doing a summer at Keble College in 94 when that horrid book came out in a puke yellow cover and was on prominent display in every Waterstones and WHSmith. Mark Simpson was already infamous for his nasty column in the Independent mocking gays as conformist sellouts while touting his own obsession with screwing "straight" trade and closet cases - all the while rejecting any gay activism as self-indulgent betrayal of the working class blokes he fancied. When I saw Peter's essay in that book, I realized he wasn't much like the sinless martyr activist image that he had helped craft in many ways in the wake of the coverage of his doomed 1983 labour candidacy in the Bermondsey by-election where the national party rejected him at too left wing (and gay) and he was even physically attacked (Ironically, Simon Hughes won as a Liberal Democrat and would later come out as bi/gay decades later.
Anyway, Tatchell knows how to get a sympathetic Guardian headline but his recent embrace of free speech absolutism in defense of homophobic bakers has been a godsend to what is left of the religious right in the UK. Peter has never been as ideological as he was portrayed - his marxism was quite shallow and simplistic and he seems to have ditched even that at the same time as Corbynism has triumphed over what was left of Blairism as the dominant tendency in Labour. He was cited in countless idiotic opeds in the Telegraph with the "even Peter Tatchell agrees" hook repeated ad nauseum. Not sure it mattered in the end as Lady Hale had signalled for a few years that she thought the court had favored the gays over the christians and the Ashers victory in the UK Supreme Court has the potential to gut a very weak set of anti-discrimination laws the UK has. I think he burned lots of bridges by so publicly supporting the poor homophobes in that case...
| by Anonymous | reply 61 | July 8, 2019 9:54 AM |
Hell, even Russell Davies of Queer as Folk fame produced that awful BBC romcom in the 90s where the gay guy falls for a woman - Bob and something - and still claims it is some of his best work. He too likes to play the martyr embellishing stories about gay mobs with pitchforks and the BBC capitulating in cancelling it after only on season. He never mentions the piss poor ratings and bad review...
| by Anonymous | reply 62 | July 8, 2019 9:59 AM |
Joe Gage was another self-loather who promoted the macho straight top indulging in secretive shameful gay sex. He made a point that none of his characters were gay - they just fucked men but married women like he did. I could barely make it through that self-congratulatory interview in Butt where he bemoans gay rights activism and identity for making it harder for "straight" men to live double lives and thus makes it harder for him to find trade to fuck him...
| by Anonymous | reply 63 | July 8, 2019 10:06 AM |
r56 Some of those profiles and interviews he did while promoting the Hours were unintentionally hilarious in either his or the reporters trying to spin his marriage to Lucy as some proof of the supposed victory of gay liberation...
| by Anonymous | reply 64 | July 8, 2019 10:09 AM |
Mark Simpson is an interesting (sort of) case. He clearly sees himself as some sort of 21st century Oscar Wilde (he wishes…) at least in terms of ‘feasting with panthers’. I do find his looking down on conformist gays laughable when he’s such a stereotypical upper-middle class gym queen himself who can only get a hard on for British working class lads or US marines. He’s probably really frustrated he was born too late, he’d have been in his element in the dark days of the 1940s/1950s when none of the men he would have picked up cruising would ever have identified themselves as gay. He takes straight acting (again, he wishes…) to a whole new level of camp.
Also like Tatchell he keeps re-writing the same articles again and again, like how he invented the term metrosexual, and ‘Have you noticed how straight men look after their appearance these days?’ Someone should tell him it’s not 1991 anymore.
As an aside though he’d damn hot and I’d hate-fuck his arse off any day, anyone on DL had him?
| by Anonymous | reply 65 | July 8, 2019 10:13 AM |
R55 but he still doesn't identify as gay.
| by Anonymous | reply 66 | July 8, 2019 12:24 PM |
Joe Gage in a dumbass. In this interview he chastises men for identifying as gay, saying they're human beings first, men second and gay a distant third. Then he proceeds to identify his sons as straight.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 67 | July 8, 2019 12:26 PM |
Who was that guy who did porn then became a country singer, changing his name and scrubbing the net of his previous identity?
| by Anonymous | reply 68 | July 8, 2019 12:27 PM |
R68: I don't remember that case, i remember a singer who was openly gay (and proud) and then decided to change his name when he tried a mainstream career on country (but in that case he wasn't in porn).
It was pathetic and it didn't work
| by Anonymous | reply 69 | July 8, 2019 12:32 PM |
^^^You're right, he didn't do porn, I misremebered.
I've looked online and still can't find his name.
| by Anonymous | reply 70 | July 8, 2019 12:34 PM |
Some have said Tom Robninson's "Glad to be Gay" was actually satire and a rather negative song. That could explain his whole being.
| by Anonymous | reply 71 | July 8, 2019 12:47 PM |
r2 oh dear, Splender? I think you mean Stephen Spender. And Barry Humphries is not a transvestite. He is a very talented comedian who dresses as a female character for entertainment and professional purposes. If anything Dame Edna is a drag queen performed by a straight man, but I think to call Dame Edna a drag queen is insulting. Edna is a completely separate entity unto herself, she's an icon.
| by Anonymous | reply 72 | July 8, 2019 1:40 PM |
[quote]Going back in the closet is surprisinly easy even today, Luke Evans and Sam Heughan are perfect examples.
The fact Sam's fangirls are homophobic, dumb, blind and in denial, also helps.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 74 | July 8, 2019 3:51 PM |
R61 I notice you refer to Tatchell as "Peter'.
| by Anonymous | reply 75 | July 9, 2019 1:25 AM |
r65 Mark was a one hit wonder with the metrosexual media frenzy of the early 00s - notice his attempt to make "spornosexual" a thing failed despite miserably. And his female online stalker seemed to have turned him off of social media - she made the mistake of taking him seriously and dutifully showed up at any online mention of his name to defend him and harass commenters. I think most people assumed that she was actually Mark's sockpuppet but she was eventually prosecuted for misdemeanor harassment of several online writers.
He was hot at one time and scored the scoop of a lifetime by befriending Dink and appearing in an Active Duty porn scene in the course of writing that article for Rolling Stone with the "straight" military types he loves but I think he felt guilty for the ensuing military crackdown.
| by Anonymous | reply 76 | July 9, 2019 2:01 AM |
r71 Robinson claims that the song was actually more of a lament that so many gay men in the 70s seemed complacent with living lives in the closet and many of them scorned the early gay activists for insisting that people come out and live openly. Then he met a woman and had a baby and basically went back into the closet for a decade or so. I have no reason to doubt his sincerity but I think there is more to the story than he has ever let on. He certainly must have known that cooperating with the tabloids would cause a justifiable gay backlash and he could have headed off controversy by publishing his own version of the story in a friendly gay venue before the tabs made it public to explain that he hadn't turned straight like the tabs were insisting. I've always assumed he and his wife had an open relationship where he could screw men on the side but who knows...
| by Anonymous | reply 77 | July 9, 2019 2:13 AM |
r75 It is easier to spell than Tatchell :)
| by Anonymous | reply 78 | July 9, 2019 2:14 AM |
r67 My angry comment was the first one - that is the interview that turned me completely off to his work.
| by Anonymous | reply 79 | July 9, 2019 2:19 AM |
Oh R76 - I know - when I was on holiday in the USA I bought that video just to see Mark in action.
| by Anonymous | reply 80 | July 9, 2019 7:06 AM |
Filmmaker Gregg Araki started dating women. But then, he always said he was "queer." But it was still jarring.
| by Anonymous | reply 81 | July 9, 2019 11:47 AM |
Araki is one of those cases who uses his sexuality for self promotion and as part of his art, but once he goes public (red carpets) he hide the men he dated and showed the women
| by Anonymous | reply 82 | July 9, 2019 12:11 PM |
You know no one has heard of any of these men you all are talking about except Cary Grant.
Famous Gays, pfft.
| by Anonymous | reply 83 | July 9, 2019 12:49 PM |
To be fair his bisexualtiy was indeed manufactured, because he is gay R33.
| by Anonymous | reply 84 | July 9, 2019 12:50 PM |
R82, I totally see that. He was queer this and queer that (even though the majority of his films aren't THAT great except maybe "Mysterious Skin.") and then suddenly, he's straight.
| by Anonymous | reply 85 | July 9, 2019 12:51 PM |
I think the most recent interview I've seen with Araki, he said he's been with a male partner for a long time, and guesses he would call himself gay.
Even when he was with Kathleen Robertson, I don't think he called himself straight.
| by Anonymous | reply 86 | July 9, 2019 12:59 PM |
R85: And there's a reason why Mysterious skin is way better than the rest and it's because it's not an original work but an adaptation of a novel
| by Anonymous | reply 87 | July 9, 2019 2:31 PM |
r87 Bingo - unless Araki is constrained by a pre-existing narrative, such as a book adaptation, he just free associates whatever crazy shit he dreamed or recalled from an acid trip into a quasi-plot, which is just as well since his films end up being little more than a nihilistic celebration of a whimsical armageddon, leavened by hot boys, sex (mostly heterosexual with a dash of male bisexual titillation - anything potentially too gay has to be diluted), violence, self-destruction and inevitably aliens. If there is any deeper meaning, it is obscured by his overwrought aesthetics. If he just limited this to one film rather than a trilogy, it would have been interesting but I think film critics, theorists and historians have read way to much politics and culture into the so called "New Queer Cinema" If anything, B. Ruby Rich essay in 1992 was more important than any of the works she was interpreting - it was, for better or worse, the foundation of most of what has become queer film studies.
Even his recent Stars limited series had no serious plots but it ticked all of Araki's g-spots - hot guys that can be completely straight (Ford) but never completely gay (Uly has to fuck a girl because penis in vagina is so natural unlike icky gay butt sex), potential aliens, and lots of angst. If this is the best he can do with an extremely generous budget and multiple hours for plot development, then that tells you all you need to know about Araki and the shallowness of "queer" film.
| by Anonymous | reply 88 | July 10, 2019 12:28 AM |
Further proof that Araki isn't some self-confident bisexual icon is the shifting and often conflicting explanations he has given for the two (maybe three - he is never clear) of his homo interregnum with his aspiring starlet Kathleen. For all his queer radicalness and flouting of convention, the movie he wrote for her was his only film up to that point that had any positive passion and his demeanor during interviews promoting Splendor was almost giddy like his first time in love. He claims he was always upfront about still liking women (which may have been true in his close circle of friends) but as far as I can tell he had always self-identified as gay and had several boyfriends and no girlfriends since college. Indeed, his entire public persona and professional oeuvre was crafted around the existential crisis of AIDS and potential death of his entire generation of gay men - hell one film was titled Doom Generation! That is part of the founding mythology of New Queer Cinema and Araki is one of the justifications for that interpretation.
But what if this is a misreading of Araki and has obscured some other themes in his works - the no homo rule (straight men are idolized but queer is almost always some form of bisexuality), homosexuality is associated with death, disease, insanity, suicide and of course alien invasion and the end of the world. There is always a primary female protagonist who is young, attractive, bohemian and usually falls in love with one of the bisexual boys. Sounds very much like the woman Araki hoped he could eventually find to save him from the darkness and desolation that he thought was in store for gay men once the bloom of youth has fallen off. Maybe he had come to believe that gay life was ultimately doomed to nihilism and his films weren't some radical celebration of queer but just internalized homophobia?
I ran across this interview he and Kathleen did for the New York Post in 1999 that reveals some not so flattering aspects of himself - rather than give an explanation for his sudden return to dating women (was he always seeking relationships with women as well as men or did Kathleen trigger something inside im he was missing?), we will never know because they just refuse to discuss anything before their new found love that motivated the movie and seem annoyed that anyone point out the elephant in the room - the movie itself is based in part on a significant change in his life so you would expect that story to be part of the promotion of the film. Maybe he was completely secure in his new bisexuality or his own internalized homophobia lead him to believe he had found that perfect woman to fill all his needs and could leave the boys behind as some youthful transgression. I have never heard Araki mention a male partner or describing a gay relationship much less write an entire movie with anything close to Kathleen. His two films during that time were his worst and most conventional - so much for radical queerness.
Finally, there is something really depressing about a middle aged man still pining for the glory days of youth - maybe he never really developed much beyond that and so he keeps using these themes so he can try to recapture what he lost....
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 89 | July 10, 2019 1:32 AM |
I have wasted too much time on Araki. There's better stuff on YouTube.
| by Anonymous | reply 90 | July 10, 2019 8:43 AM |
I've heard here and elsewhere that Sebastian Stan came out as bisexual but the story was killed & scrubbed from the internet before it could really "hit". Whether that was his reservations or his people's, I don't know. I wouldn't be surprised but given the limited understanding of the media and the general public of the nature of sexuality, I understand why he'd be reluctant. A female bisexual like Anna Paquin or Gillian Anderson or Evan Rachel Wood, they won't get quite the same shit but with a Sebastian Stan, he'd never be allowed to promote a movie ever again. All they'd want to ask is about who he's fucking.
Anthony Perkins dated Tab Hunter which Tab recently confirmed but, even beyond that, he'd had many affairs with men for like 19 years before sleeping with Victoria Principal at 39 (his first heterosexual conquest). Then he married Berry Berenson and had two children with her before he died of AIDS and she, tragically, would also die not long after in 9/11. I know one could make a case for bisexuality but I don't really believe that, in those days you were straight by default and this guy never fucked a pussy? Please. I believe in bisexuality completely but this is just the trajectory of someone desperately trying to escape their true self. Tab Hunter was forgiving about it which, to me, makes him a very generous person- I'd be pissed if my longtime boyfriend feigned heterosexuality to fit in.
Laurence Olivier was another person who was very well-known for chasing male tail, it was clearly where his interests lie. Scott Niven claimed that he and Marlon Brando hooked up, that's maybe the most famous example, but there are little particles of evidence everywhere in his life. Even his wife, Joan Plowright, has made insinuations about him and if you read Richard Burton's diaries, he implies the same. He was somebody who fucked many men but always retreated to women.
| by Anonymous | reply 91 | July 11, 2019 7:58 PM |
R91 Olivier did not chase "male tail".
You are a fool to believe any trash from that gutter-trawling, filthy, ex-seminarian parasitic liar named Donald Spoto.
| by Anonymous | reply 92 | July 11, 2019 9:35 PM |
Ok which one of you is the obsessive troll from justusboys (linked below) who thinks every gay porn star is really straight that keeps posting the same rumors on both sites and then cites them as evidence?
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 93 | July 12, 2019 4:13 AM |
Who has the energy to obsessively talk about a bunch washed-up meth heads, r93? Some gays take their porn worship and their straight boy fantasy way too far. What a bunch of losers.
| by Anonymous | reply 94 | July 12, 2019 4:18 AM |
R92: You must be kidding, everybody knows that Olivier was gay
| by Anonymous | reply 95 | July 12, 2019 10:32 AM |
The most surprising coverup I ever heard was the revelation in Leo Lerman's diaries of Steve McQueen being so taken by a young man that he took him behind a tree and blew him.
| by Anonymous | reply 96 | July 12, 2019 11:33 AM |
R96 Was Steve McQueen a homophobe? I've heard he'd made homophobic remarks but I haven't actually seen any concrete evidence of this. Didn't he and Paul Newman have an ongoing relationship for several years?
| by Anonymous | reply 97 | July 12, 2019 1:58 PM |
R97 I read a bio about McQueen and he was a right wing Republican who did not like gay men. Someone started a thread about it some time back.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 98 | July 12, 2019 4:24 PM |
[quote]r52 Gielgud's so-called porn script was of no account at all.
I bet I could do WONDERS with it!
| by Anonymous | reply 100 | July 15, 2019 10:45 PM |
[quote]r59 I think 'to save on living expenses' is my new favourite code for two male lovers living together.
And do big movie stars really need to "save on living expenses" ... by basically taking in boarders?
Maybe we all have a shot at our screen crushes, after all! Just send in roommate applications!!
| by Anonymous | reply 101 | July 15, 2019 10:50 PM |
R68 You're thinking of Josey Greenwell. He became Nate Green for a few years and tried to scrub all his gay past. After that failed, he returned to being Josey Greenwell and became a personal trainer. Now he's back to trying to be a singer, but this time as a gay man.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 102 | July 15, 2019 11:28 PM |
Some of those guys like Josey Greenwell/Nate Green are simply moneysexual.
| by Anonymous | reply 103 | July 16, 2019 12:30 AM |
R103: I think it was a weird case because it was no the typical "my career is over everything". He was out, he was trying to be a country singer (who is very brave right now and even more when he tried) and it didn't work (he is very good looking but not a great singer), and suddenly he became a different person. It's like if his PR tried to pull everything under the rug and start all over (well, that worked pretty fine for Luke Evans during a while). It didn't work either.
It was strange because he didn't went the usual route of homophobia saying he was a sinner but was redeemed or the usual crap, he simply ignored his past and act like he was a different person. Very weird
| by Anonymous | reply 104 | July 16, 2019 1:29 PM |
R72 He's a straight man in a dress, ergo a transvestite. And you're right it would be an insult to call him a drag queen as drag queens actually have talent.
| by Anonymous | reply 106 | July 17, 2019 4:03 PM |
Dame Edna is not that racist cunt who said that it's useless speak spanish unless you are talking with the help?
| by Anonymous | reply 107 | July 17, 2019 6:02 PM |
R106 You're obviously ignorant of stagecraft and Barry Humphries if you think he's without talent. I have seen him fill a theatre with over a thousand people and he can play them like a violin.
| by Anonymous | reply 108 | July 18, 2019 12:12 AM |
So among these boys who are the big ol bottoms?
| by Anonymous | reply 109 | July 28, 2019 3:48 AM |
R109: Not again, not every fucking thread has to be about who is the top or the bottom like if everywhere here had 12 years old
| by Anonymous | reply 110 | July 28, 2019 10:09 AM |
In the 1990s after Joey Stefano, Tom Katt was the go to bottom in gay porn.
Offsite Link| by Anonymous | reply 112 | July 28, 2019 4:20 PM |
R113: It's that supposed to be an insult?
| by Anonymous | reply 114 | July 28, 2019 5:29 PM |
Nick never was out, and never claim being gay. He just really really wanted to have gay fans and made gaybaiting reach the next level
| by Anonymous | reply 116 | July 28, 2019 9:51 PM |
David Bowie somehow got away with being bi in the 70s, and then claiming he was really just straight in the 80s.
| by Anonymous | reply 117 | July 28, 2019 9:55 PM |
r117 Because he was always straight - it was a bad marketing decision and AIDS make that clear...
| by Anonymous | reply 118 | July 30, 2019 10:21 PM |
Who can forget Lou Reed's backtracking? He even wrote a song proclaiming his heterosexuality ("I Love Women").
| by Anonymous | reply 119 | July 30, 2019 10:45 PM |
[quote][R117] Because he was always straight - it was a bad marketing decision and AIDS make that clear...
Sure, Jan.
| by Anonymous | reply 120 | July 30, 2019 10:48 PM |
[quote]Not again, not every fucking thread has to be about who is the top or the bottom like if everywhere here had 12 years old
R114 - no, but it's only bottoms that complain about it. Also, what does everything after the word "like" mean?
| by Anonymous | reply 121 | August 3, 2019 1:42 AM |
R121 Everytime someone complains about the top and bottoms discussion on every fucking thread the answer is always the same, you must be a bottom, like if that was a terrible insult. Grow up fucking idiot
| by Anonymous | reply 123 | August 3, 2019 10:02 AM |
R50 and R63 Joe Gage or Tim Kincaid, is bisexual. He never went back into any sort of closet. His ex-wife and children know he is bisexual and he still makes porn; but it's not as good as his porns from the 1970s. A bisexual friend of mine hooked up with him decades ago when they met at the eagle in NYC, and said how Joe/Tim was just into oral sex with men giving and getting,, masturbation, and not into anal sex.
R117 and R118 nope David Bowie was bisexual, he even said so himself.
| by Anonymous | reply 124 | June 28, 2021 3:15 PM |
R116 yes, it’s not Nick who’s gay but the older Jonas brother(s? not sure about Joe or Frankie).
Nick just wanted in on the rising pink dollar, wanted to look edgy a la his former Disney costar Miley, and also possibly wanted to show a bit of covert support and encouragement for Kevin (and maybe the other Jonai) against their crazy Xtian fundie family.
| by Anonymous | reply 125 | June 28, 2021 3:48 PM |
[quote] I've heard here and elsewhere that Sebastian Stan came out as bisexual but the story was killed & scrubbed from the internet before it could really "hit". Whether that was his reservations or his people's, I don't know.
This happened. In fact, I read a screenshot of the actual article in which a young Stan (maybe only 20 or 21, at the most) told the interviewer he was sexually interested in men. Some forum user had ripped a page of this interview from somewhere, capped it, and posted it up for fans to see. I could barely believe it at the time, but I was so proud that one of my favourite young actors (and one from a homophobic culture at that!) had been so courageous. So much for that.
But it was so long ago now (early mid 2000s, on a purged LiveJournal) that I don’t remember the source publication and didn’t save a copy, either, so I can’t look it up. I did go looking about ten years ago (after the first cast announcements for the first Captain America movie), but being less of a fan of Stan’s at that point in time I was half-assing my search and assumed the info was still out there but buried under other junk. I didn’t find anything. By now it surely has been completely scrubbed beyond recall.
| by Anonymous | reply 126 | June 28, 2021 3:54 PM |
[quote]Elton John belongs here--yes eventually came out but he's such an ass trading on decades ago fame and singning for Rushbo.
Don't forget his defense of the vile Eminem.
| by Anonymous | reply 127 | June 28, 2021 4:01 PM |
r124 Joe probably was/is bi but that wasn't the line he was pushing back in the 70s and 80s - he was (and still is) obsessed with trade - living an ostensible straight life but having lots of man sex on the side. If you read that BUTT interview, he can barely contain his contempt for men who actually identify and live as gay men - to him, they are weak and cannot fit his warped view that only "straight" men can be the hypermasculine ideal he desires. He claims bisexuality now that he is divorced and has his kids but I doubt he has touched a woman since his divorce. It is one thing to make a porn with a taboo theme - it is another to make years and years of the same theme and to try to live out that theme in real life. I would have more sympathy for him if he wasn't shitting on gay men and being an asshole like in that interview.
| by Anonymous | reply 128 | June 28, 2021 4:36 PM |
R127 Marshall Mathers is a closeted bisexual, no? Maybe Elt was trying to encourage him.
| by Anonymous | reply 129 | June 28, 2021 7:19 PM |
No, he’s just a rich, fat fuck, a sellout, and a panderer.
| by Anonymous | reply 130 | June 28, 2021 8:07 PM |
